Forum Changes

DaveKile

DaveKile

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
6,369
Location
Phoenixville
Thanks for the forum comments, PMs, and email about the Forum. They have helped give me a good perspective on the site and all the issues. Some emails I got were really good and reminded me of the fact the so many people have found this site a way to create new friendships from all over the country. That sense of community is an important part of Paflyfish... not that we have a place we can bash some politicians.

As you know, I have closed down the OT Forum because of the nature of some threads and posts that were not a style that I saw as a fit for Paflyfish. (If you want to comment please use the thread in this forum for your views.) I have also turned off the Professional Stream Reports. Like many things in life, ideas don't always turn out to be what you had hoped. It never really got the traction I had hoped.

Over the last couple over years, the Beginners Forum and Events Forum have really grown. So there are parts of the site they I am glad to see increasing in popularity.

I am working on a couple of new forums to add to the site and fleshing them out now. Mostly ideas I have had for a while and due to our recent changes and comments are helping me frame them out. Not sure when I will release them, and I am discussing with the mods how they will fit, but I think this month sounds good.

So taking somethings away, and I will be adding some new things shortly. Again, thanks for the comments and ideas. I'm listening.
 
Will hope to send updates from the #Catskills Humble Pie JAM
 
A person can only discuss over lining, bobbers, nymphing at your shoelaces, how Sage and Simms' products are overpriced (and those that buy said products are posers), and the latest Orvis gear so long 'til it starts to seem like "Groundhog Day". It's the same in any hobby that you spend enough time in.

The OT section of any forum breaks up the monotony and increases activity. I enjoyed the conversations on guns and reloading with Franklin, farming with Farmer Dave, and discussing PSU issues with PCray in this forum's OT section.
 
Stolen from The Florida Sportsman site: FWIW
One of the common complaints around here is that the same members continually violate the rules against personal attacks, so we've come up with what we believe to be a workable solution:

Starting today, any member who directs personal attacks or insults toward another will receive a 30 day suspension from the entire Forum for the first violation.

The second time will result in a 90 day suspension.

And the third time, the member will be permabanned from the Politics section.

As always, major offenses such as threats, racism, overt sexual comments, etc. may result in a permaban from the entire Forum.

Everyone starts with a clean slate as of today.

Argue politics, policy, religion, and race as you like, in a family-friendly manner, but if you go after another member you will be dealt with accordingly. I you don't have something to say about the topic, don't post on the thread.

We often have lively discussions of the issues here, but we're tired of the bickering and personal attacks.

Thanks for your cooperation,

 
Gulf - that's a nice idea. But I don't think it's very practical. Anyone who is suspended could just sign up again under a different name. It has happened on this site before.
And who would be in charge of keeping track of posters that are suspended and for how long?
Just more aggravation that the mods certainly don't need I'm sure.
 
I just threw it into the mix. No such thing as a bad idea. GG
 
BrookieChaser wrote:
A person can only discuss over lining, bobbers, nymphing at your shoelaces, how Sage and Simms' products are overpriced (and those that buy said products are posers), and the latest Orvis gear so long 'til it starts to seem like "Groundhog Day". It's the same in any hobby that you spend enough time in.

The OT section of any forum breaks up the monotony and increases activity. I enjoyed the conversations on guns and reloading with Franklin, farming with Farmer Dave, and discussing PSU issues with PCray in this forum's OT section.
Click to expand...



Active topics in the forum right now:

Stream enhancement yesterday at the Letort and discussion of spawning beds.

Video of recent brook trout study

Discussion of current rainfall in PA and possible hurricane impact on the streams

New regs and stream classifications passed at the PFBC meeting

Insights to fishing dry flies when nothing is hatching

Survival of brook trout during drought

A ton of fly patterns (FT forum)

Info on change of policy FBC for tournaments

Discussion about the Susky River pollution problems and solutions (with posts to read written by the Executive Director of the PFBC)

Report on how Penns is fishing / flow as of yesterday

Report on the Little J and notice about recent posting of popular water fished by members

Just a few^....lots more to read on the site.

 
Afish, you're using a small sample duration and a biased hypothesis.
Ask Dave to tally up results across the site for two years. Then you can post a link.

Yes, there are some interesting topics on here. Yet some topics always find their way back around.

It's like the exhaust, intake, tuner, and tire and wheel posts on automotive forums, or which scope, which caliber for deer, what cheap rifle at Walmart, etc on gun forums, and what draw length, what poundage, etc on archery forums.

My point was, if Dave wants to keep active members (you know site traffic... which helps with advertising) an OT forum would help.
 
BrookieChaser wrote:
Afish, you're using a small sample duration and a biased hypothesis.
Ask Dave to tally up results across the site for two years. Then you can post a link.

Yes, there are some interesting topics on here. Yet some topics always find their way back around.

It's like the exhaust, intake, tuner, and tire and wheel posts on automotive forums, or which scope, which caliber for deer, what cheap rifle at Walmart, etc on gun forums, and what draw length, what poundage, etc on archery forums.

My point was, if Dave wants to keep active members (you know site traffic... which helps with advertising) an OT forum would help.
Click to expand...

BrookieChaser,

The list of threads I posted are current, all with posts in the last few days...not some "best of " list of threads.

I, along with many members are interested in the latest regs and stream classifications passed the PFBC, as well as the current condition of streams in different parts of the state, as well as a project undertaken at the Letort, and my honey hole being closed on the Little J....where else can one find such info??

I agree, if none of the above current FF topics interest you, why even visit the site?


 
Afish, does Dave only use the number of visitors on 10/2/2016 to evaluate and sell the site to advertisers? I bet it's a yearly traffic number.

The idea of a forum is to attract, and hold, members to contribute to the knowledge pool which increases traffic and site value (ad revenue to keep the site up). If the "best of" list (as you call it) keeps being discussed you have more chance of people getting tired of it and decreasing your knowledge pool. It's the eb and flow of forums. You can't count on your current topics to be the only topics being discussed. Do you not want the fishing knowledge of those that the OT forum kept in your knowledge pool (Franklin, Farmer Dave, Krayfish, JackM, Foxtrapper)?

Since you brought it up. I don't give a rat's arse about how to fish the Letort, I've fished it, and it was boring place to fish with no room to actually cover ground. Now I do believe the fish residing there have value. I like reading about the PFBC info, but I can get it from their site. Our input doesn't matter to them anyways (Class A stocking). I know the conditions of the streams I fish, because I fish them.

I'm of the thought process that "I can learn something from anyone" because we all look at things differently or have different experiences. You can keep arguing with me if it makes you feel better, but I think I've proven my point as best I can through text.
 
salmonoid wrote:
dryflyguy wrote:
troutbert wrote:
I suggest having a heading called OT Forums.

Then under that have subtopics such as:

Music, Sports, Food, Cars, etc.

And make it open to the public.

No politics. Political forums are a train wreck everywhere on the internet.
Click to expand...

Totally agree!
I can't even talk politics with family, co-workers, and (most of) my friends.
Click to expand...

So the solution to hard problems and difficult subject matters appears to be avoidance...

You can make all the rules about what is and isn't permissible in OT, but unless the rules are actively enforced, it will decay into personal attack banter.
Click to expand...



^ Please understand the moderators are volunteers and check in the site on a part time basis since we all have full time jobs.

Speaking for myself; I get up early every morning and read every thread and post in the general forum. Yes for info, as well as to moderate posts for prohibited stuff as well as checking for spammers and trolls. I check in and read, on my phone, all the morning's posts during my lunch break . Many days I get home at very late from work, but on early days, I will check on the site in the evening.

If we were to start strictly moderating the OT, we would have to read every word in every post in there; that alone would be a huge task given the volume of posts, as well as very painful, given the content some of the writings I've seen in there.

But that's just the beginning. If there were a violation we would have to edit out things that weren't allowed in each post or delete it and send a PM notice for each and every problem post.

In addition we take each violation very seriously, and discuss each situation with the moderating staff and site owner to decide if further action is warranted.

I'm not sure if any of us has enough time to do all the above. I guess most things are not as simple as they seem.

Not complaining, though. I'm a FFing geek and proud of it. I actually enjoy reading all the posts, and did so even before I became a moderator. Besides, I click on 30 FFing related sites each morning before I go to work, I counted them the other day....true story.



 
BrookieChaser wrote:
Afish, does Dave only use the number of visitors on 10/2/2016 to evaluate and sell the site to advertisers? I bet it's a yearly traffic number.

The idea of a forum is to attract, and hold, members to contribute to the knowledge pool which increases traffic and site value (ad revenue to keep the site up). If the "best of" list (as you call it) keeps being discussed you have more chance of people getting tired of it and decreasing your knowledge pool. It's the eb and flow of forums. You can't count on your current topics to be the only topics being discussed. Do you not want the fishing knowledge of those that the OT forum kept in your knowledge pool (Franklin, Farmer Dave, Krayfish, JackM, Foxtrapper)?

Since you brought it up. I don't give a rat's arse about how to fish the Letort, I've fished it, and it was boring place to fish with no room to actually cover ground. Now I do believe the fish residing there have value. I like reading about the PFBC info, but I can get it from their site. Our input doesn't matter to them anyways (Class A stocking). I know the conditions of the streams I fish, because I fish them.

I'm of the thought process that "I can learn something from anyone" because we all look at things differently or have different experiences. You can keep arguing with me if it makes you feel better, but I think I've proven my point as best I can through text.
Click to expand...

I find you very confrontational, offensive and have never seen more a glass-half-empty attitude. But, as always, I try to do my best to answer each and every post directed at me with respect and honesty.

The content, attitudes, language, substance, lack of civility and respect for each other in the OT forced the site owner to shut it down.

Dave Kile has put a lot into this site for the last 20 years and takes great pride in it, as well he should. He wasn't proud of all things he read in the OT, though.

We all are his guests on here. Please respect his wishes.

My post above details the challenges in trying to moderate an off-topic forum.

And so we stand.



 
afishinado wrote:

I find you very confrontational, offensive and have never seen more a glass-half-empty attitude.
Click to expand...

I might make that my new signature.

I'm fine with your opinion of me. I don't believe I stated my opinion of you, from your posts, I thought there was a rule about personal attacks. I can if you'd like.
I thought we were discussing the role of an off topic forum on a site such as this.
Now you've seen my point and decided to post your opinion of me and change your view to "it's Dave's rules". That seems like a political strategy by a certain female candidate. I agree that it's ultimately Dave's rules, but he asked for input from members.

What I find funny is with your preformed opinion of me you still chose to confront me on my first post in this thread...

I know I said I was done but we're obviously off that subject and I couldn't let the irony go after your post about how difficult moderating is.


 
One thing that came up in discussion this week was the "swap" forum. I was under the impression this was only for regulars. Yet I believe there are several people who post on there, selling stuff, and yet never contribute to the rest of the site. Not sure what can be done about that.
 
The site has been around for going on 21 years. There are about 250,000 unique visitors a year. I consider the community those who are registered and those that are not. The vast majority of the site traffic is around the General Forum, Fly Tying, Stream Reports, Events, Locations and Beginners section. All of these are open for public viewing. Most of the traffic is not by registered users. If you were not a registered visitor you never knew we had an OT Forum.

The purpose of the site is a way for anglers to give back to the fly fishing community. I appreciated those that helped me get into the sport and why I started the site. I keep it going for that reason too. It is a place to foster a online community for fly fishing in the Pennsylvania region.

People are here to enjoy the fly fishing conversation.

We are very lucky to have the community we have created and the moderators to support it. We have come up with several moderating procedures and steps for all kinds of things that happen on the site. 98% of the moderating activities are never seen by anyone but the moderating team.

Permitting personal attacks, offensive comments and profanity is not a fit. I like to think I have set up the site and moderate for the silent majority.

I have never got a request in 21 years for expanding the site to offensive conversations. Not going to apologize and believe life isn't a race to the basement.

I care about my advertisers, but not about advertising. The first 15 years i paid for all the servers, software, code, Internet access, domain names and hours to maintain the site out of my own pocket. I will do it again if need be.

People want to come to a site they can participate, get educated, be part of a community, find the place to be trustworthy and not get abused. Paflyfsih offers that for those that are interested. It's not a fit for everyone.
 
Amazing how even THIS thread has the potential to turn into an OT type of exchange.
The same with the last thread that I read on the subject.
Internet anonymity, I guess.

Dave and the mods: THANKS for everything you do.
 
Brookie says-" Do you not want the fishing knowledge of those that the OT forum kept in your knowledge pool (Franklin, Farmer Dave, Krayfish, JackM, Foxtrapper)?"

-------------------------------------------------------
In the case of old foxtrapper i can assure you noone on the OT or any other part of this site wants my input. I found the PAFF to be a clubby bunch. That is all.
 
People who know me well on this site, would not be upset from the loss of my fly fishing acumen and willingness to share it even if it rubs against the grain.
 
I've always used the "what happens in OT stays in OT" attitude. There may be differences in political opinion but one should take every effort to keep that from negatively influencing the general FF related sections.
 
Yea, I know you all love me. LOL!

Anyway Brookie, it sounds to me like the OT will not permanently go away. It will just be changed to a kindler gentler ...

See what I did there?;-)
 
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