Fly Tying Symposium 2017

[foxtrapper1972]

"8. The show felt cheap this year. So the profit motive was more out front."
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Yep.

And when you find out show promoter(s) treat the tiers (who actually provide the content) (often at their own expense) with disrespect you get a bad taste in your mouth for the whole affair.

 

[JerryCoviello]

Just wondering who kevinmichael is calling the next generation of stars? (I do not consider myself to be a star or celebrity)

The Fly Tiers have two category tables. Category 1 the tier does not pay for his table and is only there to show off their skills, which was 80 tiers. Then you had the tier that bought a Category 2 table and was allowed to sell their products and flies.

Then you had the non-profit club tables such as Mainline Fly Tyers, TU local chapters, Project Healing Waters, and the Catskill Fly Tying Guild.

Also had Chesapeake Council of Fly Fishers International teaching anyone that wanted to stop by and tie a fly for free.

These shows help draw interest to new fly fishers who are looking to get information on how to fly fish and/or learn what fly tying is. This is also a nice way for a newbie to find a club or a club to gain new members.

I would like to see more vendors that are selling fly tying materials. But talk with a vendor and see the cost of a booth for them. Selling $3.50 thread isn't helping him recoup the cost of the booth.

I taught a workshop on Saturday and the student traveled 7 hours to learn how to spin and stack deer hair flies. I also knew him from a workshop I taught back in August at the Fly Fishing Fair in Livingston Montana and it was great to reconnect with him.

As a Demo Fly Tyer for the weekend I had many guests stop by and ask questions on Deer Hair spinning and stacking, and when I changed to parachutes and nymphs others stopped by to watch and ask questions.

It would be a shame to loose this show since it does serve a purpose to the fly tying community. There were tiers from New Hampshire, Conn, NJ, PA, VA, CO, DE, and NY. They paid their own expenses to be here to show their knowledge to others.

As a demo tier at the show the promoter has never disrespected me.

I am not getting into cost of tickets (movie ticket is over $10.00 for a 2 hour move).

Dark room, yes that was an issue and the venue could not brighten the room with the lights they had. Things happen, learn for next year what to do. I hear the room will be moved to a larger banquet room on the 3rd floor where the lighting is better.

You want more vendors, talk to them and say you really missed them at the show.

If you have ways to improve the show email Chuck. I also agree no reason to attack him personally.

 

[afishinado]

^ Thank you for posting, Jerry.

If the truth be known, (and now it is) most of the tyers at the show were there at their own expense, just because they love fly tying, teaching, and showing others the craft...and not to make any profit for themselves.

As far as fly tying vendors that are looking to make a profit for themselves; why would they spend money for a booth, travel expenses, hotel, meals, plus their time, or pay someone to man their booth, all to sell items at deep discounted prices? They can and most do, sell their products online with very low overhead, without any of the aforementioned expenses.

Anyway, if enough people enjoy the show and see value in it, the show will go on.

If not, the show will no longer exist.

It's really as simple as that.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

It sure is nice that so many give of their time and talents and either are paid nothing or actually have to pay for a booth and of course travel expenses etc. And less vendors just means these shows are not profitable for them either. So the organizer is the only one who walks away with a pile of $. I guess that's how it works?

 

[JerryCoviello]

Good for the organizer. His idea, his time to organizer the event, taking the risk for putting a couple of thousand dollars down on the venue, hoping that the weather holds up and advertising to bring in the customers. Dealing with the electrical union and the carpenter union.

If you want to do this there is no stopping anyone from creating a show of your own.

 

[afishinado]

JerryCoviello wrote:
Good for the organizer. His idea, his time to organizer the event, taking the risk for putting a couple of thousand dollars down on the venue, hoping that the weather holds up and advertising to bring in the customers. Dealing with the electrical union and the carpenter union.

If you want to do this there is no stopping anyone from creating a show of your own.

Understood (by most anyway). Thanks again, Jerry for your info.

I guess the bottom line is; if you love fly tying and are interested in learning about tying and talking to people with similar interests, the show may be enjoyable to you.

If you looking to make a killing by buying fly tying materials, tools or whatever at cheap prices, the show may not be for you.

 

[JackM]

Enough said yet?

 

[DaveKile]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:
It sure is nice that so many give of their time and talents and either are paid nothing or actually have to pay for a booth and of course travel expenses etc. And less vendors just means these shows are not profitable for them either. So the organizer is the only one who walks away with a pile of $. I guess that's how it works?

There is so much money rolling in from the fly fishing industry I don't why there are not more people in jumping in.

Glad that Chuck has done such a great job bringing so many people together for so long. Anyone that can give so much to so many people for so long should be applauded.

IMHO

 

[tctrout]

Bob,

Thanks for the kind words, as it was a pleasure talking to you and many others from this site and all over. The IFTS was a wonderful experience for me, and I plan on writing a full review of it in the next few days. In the meantime, I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving.

Tim

redietz wrote:
I, on the other hand, thought the show excellent. The only disappointment was the fact that Charlie Collins was a no show. I was looking forward to picking up a few hen sets.

Robert Smith's talk was worth trip in itself. His tying demo was a bonus. (As was getting to talk to tctrout for a few minutes.)

 

[clearwater]

As the founder and producer of the International Fly Tying Symposium I value opinions and depend on forums like paflyfish to allow people to express their views. I've decided to respond to the several members who shared a wide variety of personal comments about the symposium, me, tiers, and vendors.
I read the post by Kevin Michael. I don't recall ever meeting him, but he sure has a ton of knowledge about me and my efforts to bring the symposium to the public these past 30 years. There wasn't anything he liked about the symposium or me, even hating my clothing. I read his rant twice just to see if it was a weird joke. The only thing he didn't say bad things about was my mother. Everything else he beat to death.
The other post by a "fox trapper" from nowersville, according to his fact sheet, also seemed to be highly critical. It would take me a few thousand words to answer both of them. I will do something unusual and very transparent to address just one of their many backstabbing that most people would tell them that it is none of their business. But it is painting me as a money counting scoundrel and cheating the tiers and exhibitors for personal profit. It is a coincidence that I just received all the invoices from the hotel, decorator for tables and stools, printers that print and mail my brochures, electricians, celebrities, food and lodging expenses, and a variety of other things that are necessary to produce a show. Maybe those that find it necessary to go on this forum and call me a money counter might, but I doubt it, review these facts before claiming to be my accountants.
Just finished the symposium costs to produce the event: $30,350.00
The money needed from ticket sales, booth rentals, and a percentage of tier tables came to : $30,100.00
That was great news for me, because I only went in the hole a few hundred dollars and it is usually closer to a thousand or more. Over 30 years it added up. But I have the enjoyment and satisfaction to doing something I enjoy and so do many others. Not everything should be evaluated on dollars or cost. Good times and great friends are invaluable. And I want to thank all those that aupport me and make be happy to continue bringing the symposium to you every year. If you don't find it valuable to your lifestill that's O.K. There are other things to spend your $15 on, but think about not being so nasty the next time you feel we want to hear your rant and ravings.
Chuck Furimsky

 

[CLSports]

Business Libel is grounded in spreading lies. Free speech, is grounded in being able to express an opinion.
 Message Board etiquette is grounded in not taking private disputes public for no public purpose.

So, are you saying these personal attacks to "CHUCK" and his business are simply an expressed opinion and not Business Libel? I never quite understood the fine line.

 

[tctrout]

I hope all had a relaxing Thanksgiving! I apologize for not submitting my thoughts on the IFTS sooner, but here goes.

This was the second year that I had an opportunity to participate as a tier and presenter in the IFTS, and both experiences were again extremely enjoyable.

From the tier perspective, I shared a table with my buddy Josh, and it was great to connect with so many that I hadn't previously met before. There were around three or four members from this forum that introduced themselves, and very cool to put a face with a name (or username, GenCon!). As mentioned, it was dark in the room, and Chuck was very clear (and apologized) about that when speaking at the Banquet on Saturday night. I had multiple lights at my tying station, and had no problems tying. The Saturday crowd was larger than Sundays, which is the norm, and I was surprised and happy that many people from NJ had made the trek to Lancaster.

As with last year, I left my station occasionally to see what everyone else was tying, and it was great seeing many familiar faces and friends, plus making some new ones. I'm surely missing some, but people who made the show for me include Theo Bakelaar (everyone loves Theo!), Tim Flagler, Mike Albano, Bob Clouser, Tom Baltz, Walt Young, Josh Miller, Mike Romanowski, Jerry Coviello, Ted Patlen, Lou DiGena, John Collins, Darrin Krug, Son Tao, Greg Heffner, Randy Buchanon, Matthew Green, Gordon Chesney, and Chuck Furimsky. So much talent, and catching a glimpse of Robert Smith tying was cool.

On Saturday, I participated in "Meet the Bloggers," a newer event that has grown in popularity. In its second year, the group was moderated by Chuck, and consisted of a lively round table discussion featuring:

Josh Miller - Fly Fishing Team USA
Walt Young - Writer, personality (seriously, ha ha!), and creator of Walt's Worm
Tim Flagler - Tightline Productions
Son Tao - Facebook and Instagram
Nicole March - The Quilted Tyer

The banquet Saturday night was a blast, allowing me to meet the Project Healing Waters top five tiers for the year, plus witness the announcement of their winner, Son Tao. The banquet food was delicious (Italian), the giveaways were worth the price of admission, plus the videos of "Red Neckman" were nothing short of spectacular!

On Sunday, I taught a fly tying class that consisted of some excellent tiers and we had a lot of fun. Immediately following that, I gave a presentation on "Emergers," and the audience members were very attentive (considering Blane Chocklett was on-deck!).

My only regret was that I didn't have a chance to view some of the other presentations, especially one given by Matthew Green on entomology.

Thanks to all who attended and stopped by my station, as it was another great IFTS for me. Thank you especially to Chuck Furimsky for continuing to support and promote this event, and I look forward to participating again next year.

Tim

 

[clearwater]

I never knew that business libel was grounded in lies. But if I sue one or two of your bloggers who posted it would be an easy case. At least half or more of their opinions were simply lies. The claim that the same old people with the same old programs was a low blow of a lie. It's not fair to Robert Smith, who flew over from England to present his awesome seminar for the first time at the symposium, or Matt Green who seined insects in the morning so he could have a really live seminar, and Daniel Galhardo who travelled from Colorado to tie Tenkara Flies that were a unique new featured tier program. And those were just a few examples that were facts that make the symposium a popular yearly event. Even Bob Clouser, who ties the most popular pattern everyone has learned, demonstrated his new patterns. Yes, he is old like me and others, but we still have something to share. And scattered around the symposium in between old legends are young and upcoming stars. Just have to look around and not walk through the aisles with a giant chip on your shoulder and a hurry to get home and blog your bitterness.
As I mentioned this would be an easy case to sue because the business lose is spelled out in writing. Didn't the one blogger write that he would never give me another $15 dollars and never attend another symposium. There you go, I just lost business. This blogger believed his own lies and is hurting my business by refusing to spend his cash. Case closed.
Chuck Furimsky

 

[JackM]

clearwater wrote:
I never knew that business libel was grounded in lies.
Chuck Furimsky

Yes Libel and/or Slander must be based upon a false assertion of fact.

 

[kevinmichael]

Chuck Furmisky and the PA Fly Fish Bloggers,

I'm sure no one will find it difficult to believe this is not the first time I have regretted something I said and especially the way I said it.
So let me say right at the start...I apologize to Mr. Furmisky and the Fly Tying Symposuim for the unkind manner in which I presented my impression of the show.

It is true I returned from the Fly Tying Symposium disappointed and hot under the collar. Then in a moment of intemperance, placed my tounge firmly in cheek and tried to express my opinion in a (what I thought) was a humorous and over the top manner. My intent (truly) was to stir the pot and begin a discussion on ways of improving the show. I can see now that my bombastic tone came off as mean spirited. For that I apologize. There certainly were more constructive ways I could have expressed my opinion.

I do not know Chuck Furmisky. We have never met or spoken. I have nothing against him personally. My comments regarding his management of the show were out of line. I am sure this apology will be too little...too late for many but it is heartfelt and sincere none the less.

Kevinmichael

 

[JackM]

There you go. Kisses!

 

[lestrout]

Yo kev
.
I am glad to see your explanation and apology. I was so struck by the unusual tone of the OP that I looked at your old postings. I found the dissonance so puzzling that I assumed you had been the victim of an unfair traffic ticket, road rage and several-too-many libations. It is good that you closed the circle.

 

[eunanhendron]

Been tying at the show for about 5 years.

I love meeting the guys i see but twice or three times a year, having a beer and shooting the breeze.

Folks always stop by my table, some regulars, some new folks.

I cover all my expenses to attend the show, gas, hotel, food (beer) etc, but i keep going back because i like it.

Sure, there are things not to like, low attendance some times if the stripers are running, poor lighting, you could write a book of things to complain about, but whats the point if the end result is an overall good experience.

Again, i enjoy the show, meet folks and get some deals, either on new materials, vintage stuff (antique blind eye double hooks this year) and some books.

I also tie flies that virtually noone fishes with, including myself. But the skills and techniques i use can be used in any fly tying scenario - - so i like to share that information to those who stop by.

Finally, i usually learn a thing or two from some of the older attendees.