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CRB
Well-known member
"But you wouldn't flame post one if it was posted, correct?"
Yes, correct. I would love to see the photos.
Yes, correct. I would love to see the photos.
JerryCoviello
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No Jack I didn't post this to get any "throw down negativity".
I posted this to get objective feedback. I have seen a few posts in this forum that could be considered flame throwing responses.
I have received many positive and informative responses. The responses against were good also.
With running a program that could be consider not favorable could end up ruining the club/organization. So as the Chairman of the FTG I look for feedback before going forward with a program.
Thank everyone for the feedback and the FFI FTG Fly Tying Group will consider all responses as we decide to go further with this program.
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poopdeck
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I'm being nice here! I don't consider fly tying a sport or art and would never frame a fly or hang one on a wall. I think most feel this way.
I recognize a minority of Tyers would love a good contest wether it be out of vanity, acclaim or nothing better to do so why not provide them a forum.
I could see where a contest such as this could ruin a club. The real question should be how to keep the judging objective. I think it's fair to say that some people get weak in the knees just mentioning "famous" tyers. I think those interested in tying contests are these types and are looking for their own notoriety. Could create lots of unneeded tension without an objective judging system.
I recognize a minority of Tyers would love a good contest wether it be out of vanity, acclaim or nothing better to do so why not provide them a forum.
I could see where a contest such as this could ruin a club. The real question should be how to keep the judging objective. I think it's fair to say that some people get weak in the knees just mentioning "famous" tyers. I think those interested in tying contests are these types and are looking for their own notoriety. Could create lots of unneeded tension without an objective judging system.
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troutbert
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camaraderie
Goodwill and lighthearted rapport between or among friends; comradeship.
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Having a contest among your club members could be divisive.
You could lose your camaraderie.
Not everything needs to be turned into a competition.
Goodwill and lighthearted rapport between or among friends; comradeship.
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Having a contest among your club members could be divisive.
You could lose your camaraderie.
Not everything needs to be turned into a competition.
Dave_W
Moderator
Staff member
Interesting - I certainly don't feel this way.
Why anyone who ties wouldn't think of it as an art form (or at least a craft) seems odd to me. I have flies hanging on the walls and all over my home office.
Judging would need some subjective quality like any art competition. Tiers working the same pattern would need a time limit and flies could be presented to the judges anonomously so that favoritism could be avoided.
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dryflyguy
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No interest from me in a fly tying contest. ( or fishing competition either). But I have no problem with people who like doing it.
I've even met a few folks who enjoy tying more than fishing
I have tried - and fished with - many elaborate patterns over the years. With high hopes of finally coming up with a "killer" pattern that just takes fish left and right.
And usually, their performance fell well short of expectations.
And though I'm still willing to try something new, I've pretty much settled into tying mostly old tried and try patterns. ( that are usually quite simple to tie.)
FWIW - I've probably caught more fish on a crowe beetle, that anything else I've used
I've even met a few folks who enjoy tying more than fishing
I have tried - and fished with - many elaborate patterns over the years. With high hopes of finally coming up with a "killer" pattern that just takes fish left and right.
And usually, their performance fell well short of expectations.
And though I'm still willing to try something new, I've pretty much settled into tying mostly old tried and try patterns. ( that are usually quite simple to tie.)
FWIW - I've probably caught more fish on a crowe beetle, that anything else I've used
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
I would venture to say most people consider flies like the classic salmon flies as art. The same could be said about the masters that make some of the ornate bamboo rods.
I truly admire the people with the skill and talent to produce such works of art.
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troutbert
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I agree with everything you say about the competition. I don't think it's a good idea.
But I don't agree about the art part. Which is a totally different question from the competition issue.
I love seeing really superb flies. And framing them makes perfect sense to me. It displays them well for viewing and preserves them.
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CRB
Well-known member
Now that is what i am talking about ,photos like these. I know i could not tie this well, but they are so pleasing to look at.
The skill level is vastly higher than my tying level?
The skill level is vastly higher than my tying level?
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poopdeck
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Just to clarify the art part of my comment. I don't see it as art but I recognize that some do. Not saying I'm right or wrong it's just how I view it. I mentioned it just so the OP knew the basis of my opinion on the subject.
I once went to an art show featuring art made from plastic bottles. Every exhibit looked like a pile of trash to me but some viewed it as art even though it was obviously glued together trash.
I once went to an art show featuring art made from plastic bottles. Every exhibit looked like a pile of trash to me but some viewed it as art even though it was obviously glued together trash.
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outsider
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I develop my own patterns, sometimes variations of other's patterns. I consider my creativity to be an art-form.
One man's vocation is another man's art.
One man's vocation is another man's art.
eunanhendron
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i think contests present an additional challenge to the craft/art fly tying.
You're presented with a pattern, ideally, to fit your skill level, which you have to tie to the best of your ability. You're pushed to make every thread wrap count.
If your tying advanced flies as a beginner, i can see how this would affect the end game.
I've heard of competitions where the contestants judge the flies of all participants by a vote. Ideally, your fly is judged by peers who've tried to tie it.
You're presented with a pattern, ideally, to fit your skill level, which you have to tie to the best of your ability. You're pushed to make every thread wrap count.
If your tying advanced flies as a beginner, i can see how this would affect the end game.
I've heard of competitions where the contestants judge the flies of all participants by a vote. Ideally, your fly is judged by peers who've tried to tie it.
JerryCoviello
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I would like to thank you for all your responses.
I think there were more positive responses that a Fly Tying Contest can be fun and the participates could learn from the activity.
My findings will go to a committee and then the Board of Directors for approval.
Thank you again
Jerry Coviello
I think there were more positive responses that a Fly Tying Contest can be fun and the participates could learn from the activity.
My findings will go to a committee and then the Board of Directors for approval.
Thank you again
Jerry Coviello
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OldLefty
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The fly-tying comps with which I'm familiar require the contestants to tie specific patterns. That means creativity is either severely restricted or, as I see it, eliminated. I've seen contestants become severely nervous/stressed during a contest. I've always questioned how one could consider something enjoyable when emotions run in that direction; yet, I have to accept it as fact when I'm told these same previously stressed folks enjoy these contests.
Fly-tying contests are definitely not for me; however, I would feel it totally unacceptable for someone to attempt to quash them solely because they don't like the concept. It's the same for fly fishing comps. The glaring difference here is that flies are judged mostly subjectively while it's substantive with fly fishing.
I like to sit down at the vise and indulge in my desire to be creative. I know how I want to approach a concept and I'm constantly mulling over in my mind how I can approach things a bit differently. Tweaking is both enjoyable and challenging, for the most part. I suppose that posting a fly pattern on facebook or anywhere else could be considered an act of vanity since people provide feedback to the tyer. That means many of us are vain. Would I think that I may be capable of winning a tying contest? I really don't know - and I have absolutely zero desire to find out.
I can't say that I consider the broad spectrum we see within the realm of fly-tying as art. Some Salmon flies and some wet flies would fall within this category. There are some tyers who tie a variety of imitations that, when complete, lack only the magic of life they appear that realistic. I suppose we could include these as artwork, as well.
I'll end this post with this: one thing that bothers the daylights out of me is when someone hands me a fly and says, "I know it's not as good as yours." They have unknowingly yielded to me in some form of imaginary competition/comparison. That's not what fly-tying is all about...
Fly-tying contests are definitely not for me; however, I would feel it totally unacceptable for someone to attempt to quash them solely because they don't like the concept. It's the same for fly fishing comps. The glaring difference here is that flies are judged mostly subjectively while it's substantive with fly fishing.
I like to sit down at the vise and indulge in my desire to be creative. I know how I want to approach a concept and I'm constantly mulling over in my mind how I can approach things a bit differently. Tweaking is both enjoyable and challenging, for the most part. I suppose that posting a fly pattern on facebook or anywhere else could be considered an act of vanity since people provide feedback to the tyer. That means many of us are vain. Would I think that I may be capable of winning a tying contest? I really don't know - and I have absolutely zero desire to find out.
I can't say that I consider the broad spectrum we see within the realm of fly-tying as art. Some Salmon flies and some wet flies would fall within this category. There are some tyers who tie a variety of imitations that, when complete, lack only the magic of life they appear that realistic. I suppose we could include these as artwork, as well.
I'll end this post with this: one thing that bothers the daylights out of me is when someone hands me a fly and says, "I know it's not as good as yours." They have unknowingly yielded to me in some form of imaginary competition/comparison. That's not what fly-tying is all about...
mike_richardson
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I would like to know the rules of these competitions, and what the judges look at. Also who are these judges and what qualifications do you have to have to be a judge.
I would like to enter one just for fun. But it is kind of something hard to judge. I guess you could grade the fly on proportions, and how smooth the dubbing is, how neat the hackle is wrapped, etc. but you would never know how durable the fly is until it is fished. You would have no way of knowing if it will actually catch fish. LOL I have some soft hackles that I tie that would get kicked out of a contest because of how thick and long, I make the soft hackles but will down right destroy trout.
I would really like to enter any of these contest, but I have no clue when or how they are done. I would just like to see how the flies I tie are perceived by others.
I would just hope that the judges have some form of credibility. I know in turkey calling contest, or call making competitions the judges may not be the most qualified.
In both fly tying and call making and calling the only real judges are turkey and fish though...Right?
I would like to enter one just for fun. But it is kind of something hard to judge. I guess you could grade the fly on proportions, and how smooth the dubbing is, how neat the hackle is wrapped, etc. but you would never know how durable the fly is until it is fished. You would have no way of knowing if it will actually catch fish. LOL I have some soft hackles that I tie that would get kicked out of a contest because of how thick and long, I make the soft hackles but will down right destroy trout.
I would really like to enter any of these contest, but I have no clue when or how they are done. I would just like to see how the flies I tie are perceived by others.
I would just hope that the judges have some form of credibility. I know in turkey calling contest, or call making competitions the judges may not be the most qualified.
In both fly tying and call making and calling the only real judges are turkey and fish though...Right?
mike_richardson
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After taking the time and reaching out to the OP and reading all of the levels of the awards programs. I think it is more about challenging yourself, The varied types of flies in each level will help your become a better tyer in the long run. Right now I don't tie dry flies. I mean the ocassional elk hair caddis or something like that. They are hideous, but they work.
I think you have to have a different look at tying flies to want to give this a go. There is an investment involved to pick up the materials and such that you may not have, but overall it would be about challenging yourself. Tie the fly within the constraints of the awards program, and tie it well.
I think I am going to give the bronze level a shot and go from there. It is a neat idea, and I can see it greatly improving the quality of my flies. Some flies, I may tie differently, but that adversity of tying within constraints I think is what will ultimately make someone a better fly tyer. It is a structured program.
Of course it is not for everyone, but I think it is a neat concept.
I think you have to have a different look at tying flies to want to give this a go. There is an investment involved to pick up the materials and such that you may not have, but overall it would be about challenging yourself. Tie the fly within the constraints of the awards program, and tie it well.
I think I am going to give the bronze level a shot and go from there. It is a neat idea, and I can see it greatly improving the quality of my flies. Some flies, I may tie differently, but that adversity of tying within constraints I think is what will ultimately make someone a better fly tyer. It is a structured program.
Of course it is not for everyone, but I think it is a neat concept.
