Fly shops, no help!!

"I am strongly with the school that feels its unfair to expect fly/tackle shops to give away their product.Information of any kind relating to fishing in their area is part of their service/product.Pay for it -buy something.
REMEMBER-you get what you pay for."

You probably tip your server or bartender. Would you do it if the bartender demanded a tip BEFORE serving you? To me, the flyshop owner who won't give out basic info until he makes a sale has got it equally backwards. And as I said in another post, I buy something in every fly shop I visit. In fact, I do so even if I already know where to fish and what is hatching. I want the shop to still be there when I come back that way next time.
 
My one out of town experience with a fly shop was in VT. I forget the stream I was going to fish, but I found the stream and there was a shop near it. They also sold hunting supplies (I think pretty rare for most of Vermont). Anyway, I walked up to the counter and ask the guy where would be a good access point for the steam. He gave me detailed directions and when I mention I was fly fishing, he pulled out a couple of dry flies and GAVE them to me! He said if they are rising, that's the ticket. Wished me good luck and I left. Now there is someone who knows a little about customer relations.
 
"with hind sight he definantly got the better of me in that exchange"

Now i would have paid money to see that Jack!
 
My experiences over the last year in with wyoming and washington state have been:

If I go in, having done a lot of research, ask a specific question about a lesser known but promising stream not on their maps or chalkboards, I usually get a guarded to gruff response ranging from silence to a red faced "where did you hear about that?" followed by a rant about guidebooks and the internet.

If I go in with my wife with and Orvis hat on, buy something, and then ask "where can I fish", I get the usual song and dance about the well known rivers that they have on their boards and maps, and usually get some flies reccomended.

If I go on a guided trip, I usually get taken to a lesser known river or lesser known section, not on their boards and only briefly mentioned in maps and guidebooks, and have an outstanding day fishing. Sometimes, the guidebooks and literature say these very streams they take me to are "tough", "difficult to fish", or have poor fishing.......completely the opposite of my experience. I asked one guide about this and he admitted that the streams they take clients were intentioanally left out of the guidebook that the fly shop owner wrote.

My point is that just because they are being friendly and seem to be helpful does not mean they are giving you accurate info.....and you only know this when you've done a lot of research on your own and confront them with detailed, knowledgable questions. Being rude is bad for business, and most will prefer to misdirect you in a friendly manner.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just that its the way it is.......
 
You know I was in retail for many years, even had my own business for 3 years and never did I treat anyone I was there to help with distain. If a person walks into any store he should be treated as well as if he were a millionaire or a pauper. And don't think for a minute you have to buy something in exchange for information, if it is information you want ask for it, and expect an answer, and not be blown off. The power of the dollar is why people own businesses anyway, so if your in a store, the people should bow to your needs as long as you aren't being an AH.
My 2 cents.
 
After reading all the posts I see there are a few reasons the man was unwilling to help.
1- I did not have merchandise in my hand.
2- I probably didn't look too clean. Beard, cut off jeans, t-shirt.
3-Not a Led Zeppelin fan (T-shirt)
4- Hates the Mets ( Ball cap)
5- Its his favorite stream (1 1/2 miles from his shop and he says it is nowhere in the area)
6- he still hasn't figured out how to get out the 9ft 5wt that has been stuck up his butt the last 30 years.

I had done my research on the stream. Its 3 hours from my house and I dont drive 3 hours without knowing where and what Im doing. I did not ask for specific spots or what to use. Just needed a little direction. The man had to of known we were going to find it being that close already. Yes, it is a beautiful little stream with many natives and monster wild browns in the lower parts. It is also a trib of a very famous stream and I think the man just couldn't stomach the fact that some out of towners were headed to his honey hole. I was very polite to the man and even asked how he was doing. He did not even say hi when I walked in the door. Maybee I should have worn a suit and tie.
 
Ohio, I will be sending my wife in to put on the charm from now on. Good Idea. I wish she was with me that day.
 
I have to agree with Chaz about the bottom line here..

If you're in retail and cannot find a way to at least briefly endure the brassy loudmouth and treat him pretty much the same as the guy who makes the curteous inquiry, you're probably in the wrong business.

Bear in mind I'm talking in general terms and not calling anybody here a "brassy loudmouth".

It certainly isn't easy or at least I didn't find it easy in the year or two I worked in a shop. But the good people you meet more than make up for it, IMO.

I think another thing worth considering about this stuff is that (at least in PA and probably elsewhere as well) the indep fly shop biz has always, for as long as I can recall, has been wonderfully loaded with eccentrics, many of whom are in the business mostly because it was the best way they could find to always be near the sport they love and try to make a living at the same time. On average, they're a pretty colorful bunch.

The thing is though that not very many of these people have been to the Macy's School of Customer Stroking and Smooth Retail Moves and often, if you happen in on a day when they are half a note off or on the heels of the last brassy loudmouth, you're going to get them unfiltered and perhaps a little raw.

But in some ways, that (IMO at least) is just another part of being "colorful". More often than not, if a shop guy weirded out on me, I got a chuckle out of it and moved on.

I think a study of fly shop owners would make a wonderful Masters thesis is Sociology. Or at least it seemed that way to me back when I was roaming around fishing Pennsylvania.

All the same, if you're in retail and want to succeed, you have to do the retail thing and bear up through the half-wits as well as enjoy the good folks.

Either that or lock the door and only open it for people you already know you can tolerate. There's probably better business models than that...:)
 
The best advice ever given to me about fly fishing, was given to me by a fly shop... by NOT giving me information.

Many moons ago, while fishing a popular fly fishing area during the sulfur hatch, I grew wary of all the crowds on the stream. I had tried two tiny creeks in the area for brookies without a lot of luck. I thought if I spent some money and asked real nice -- and quiet -- I might get the local fly shop to divulge one brookie stream to me. So I went in spent, about $30 on flies, leaders and shot. And I casually mentioned I would like to get away from the crowds and ask, " You wouldn't know of any out-of-the-way brookie streams would you?"

I swear, every person in that shop stopped and stared at me. The clerks face suddenly had a pissed off look and he said something to the effect of "Yeah, I know of many but I never tell anybody where they are."

I knew right away I screwed up, so I grabbed my bag and was on my way out when the clerk ask if I had a Gazetteer. I didn't. He pulled out a copy and showed me a page number and told me anyplace you see blue lines check it out, chances are it holds fish. I spent and extra $15, bought the book (which I still use) I did quite a bit of roaming. And he was right.

A lesson learned. Since then, I rarely tell anybody where my brookie streams are. I found each and every one the hard way. Selfish? Probably. But I believe in protecting the resource.
 
Shrec, brought up another great point here.................
Often times, instead of relying on a Fly Shop owner's advice, or even the reader boards, in my local shops and especially when entering a never-been to-before-fishing area, I pick up a Forest Service Topography Map.
I love Gazetteers, too, but the topo maps, at least here in the West, are much more detailed where any water is concerned.
 
Well the get a gazetteer and find it yourself schpeel works well for your local water....when you've blown a couple of thousand bucks to fly someplace and fish or driven several hours its the last thing you are looking for.....after playing cat and mouse with fly shop help on this issue....i just hire a guide now at the beginning of the trip, well worth the money for the local advice, even though I hate when guides tie knots for me and slave over the ubiquitous shore-lunch.
 
\ I've never had any problems with flyshops, they've always been nice to me. I do try to buy at least something from them. I guess tht's why I have way more stuff then I need.

PaulG
 
i agree with Chaz. U ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE SOMETHING FOR SOME POLITE INFORMATION.
if you were, how many ppl would have to buy something at a gas station just to get directions? OR do you have to buy a stove or enuff wood to build a new porch just to ask a question at home depot? IMO the owner or worker of this flyshop was just rude. and now because of it is losing business. if i was the owner and saw a worker doing this to a customer i would have them fired.
i understand about trying to help keep ppl of waters that cant handle pressure. i understand about not wanting to give up secret spots or your local waters, but NOT through misleading or down right lying about a stream.
I have had mixed experiences at fly shops. Some of the ppl are a helpful and others have that stingy attitude with information. and i can always tell when someone is BSing me or being stingy. im good at reading ppl and once they do that....i dont return. my local flyshop sometimes comes off as not wanting to sell me what i want but rather what they want me to buy. i can blame them for that though....they are just trying to make a buck.
I will say the most pleasent experince i have had at a flyshop was at slate runs fly shop. I cant remember the owners name (wish i could he was very polite) but me and him...exchanged fishing stories and techniques. he discussed how the stream had been fishing and what was coming off, also he gave me some "better" places to park and access the stream......we talked for about an hour. i actually just stopped in to say hi and do just those things. AFTERWARDS the experience was so pleasent i THEN felt obligated to purchase something and i did. i bought about 40 dollars in his flies. SEE that is good business! has he blown me off, i wouldnt have purchased anything, and never come back. since then ive been in that store over 20 times. :-D

p.s. side note......i called that store once when i broke my 7'0 3wt orvis clearwater classic rod. i was very upset being this is a rare model rod. i was calling orvis endorsed dealers everywhere cause orvis was out of stock on that model. he had just one left. we talked for a little while and he remembered me. he called orvis for me as a favor and had it shipped to me straight from his store after orvis recieved my broken rod. i thanked him up and down for that! now thats service........a little extra goes along way....ill always stop by his store when im in the area...

dont worry sandfly ill always stop into yours too...u know i wuvs ya! :lol: :lol: :-D
 
No one is saying anyone is obligated-we were discussing courtesy .
That is a two way street.
 
oh but pete, if certain flyshops only give out info after u purchase something...then u are obligated to buy something to get info.
and that is just wrong.
courtesy is a two way street......
 
A lot of the old school guys wouldn't think of withholding info on small wild trout streams as being rude. They were taught that it's not "right" to give that info out. They are thinking of this as a conservation practice. Whether that's idea is correct or not is a topic for debate, since the PFBC claims that harvest has little to no effect on trout populations. But I'm just explaining that many people think that way.

If you would ask a question about casting or flies or tackle or whatever, they would probably answer the question gladly. But ask them about unstocked wild streams, especially those under general "removal" regs and they clam up.
 
Here's an example of a fly shop owner who has the right idea. Last year I spent several days fishing up in Potter County. I have a habit of stopping in at the local shops and picking up a few of the local ties while I "fish" for information. I stopped in at Phil Baldacchino's Kettle Creek Tackle Shop. I had never heard of Phil before. Phil spent an hour telling me of small streams that I would never have found otherwise. Then I went to the fly counter and asked what was working. Phil said this time of year (it was late fall) any common attractor in your box works. I had to practically twist his arm to buy some flies which I needed anyway since my flybox was rather low.

After having a great day on the streams Phil told me about I stopped by to thank him. In the course of discusion I found out he had some nice custom fiberglass rods he made. He left me cast a few different ones and I found one I couldn't resist. I ended up buying a whole outfit and using it hte rest of the trip. Oh, and the largest brookie of the trip was landed on one of the flies he sold me on the first day.
 
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