Fly shops, no help!!

[mattd]

I was wondering if anyone else has had a similiar experiance with a fly shop away from home. A friend and I were searching for a specific stream and were having problems locating it. We came across a fly shop and figured they would have to know about it. Maybee its because we didn't purchase anything but when I asked about the stream and where I could find it the person working there claimed it was no where around there. We knew it was close and he just BSing us so as we walked out the door my buddy turned and asked where we could find some worms. I will never forget the face the man made as he stayed silent. A mile down the road was a gas station were and elderly woman directed us right to the stream. We had a great fish that day and I have been back many times. That man caused himself some business there. I have told a few friends not to stop there and if he would have just helped us out I would have made sure to come back. So remember, if you ever come across a fly shop thats not willing to help you out, just ask where you can find some worms. :lol:

 

[pete41]

Yeah,but did she have your worms?
The fly shop person probably saw you as freeloaders.They get a lot of that.lol

 

[mattd]

I wouldn't say someone is a freeloader if they knew which stream they wanted to find. Not like we just stopped and asked, Where can I find some trout? Maybee so. Im sure she had some worms too, my buddy said that just to scare him since we knew he didn't want us on his stream. By the way, the stream was 1 1/2 miles from the shop.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Sometimes it just depends on the person. Two years ago I went on a fishing trip to an area I was not familiar with. I stopped in at the local shop to get some information. The owner ( I found out later he was one of the owners.) was very gruff and not very helpful. This year I visitied the same area with my brother. He talked me into visiting the shop against my reservations. This time one of the other owners was there. Couldn't have had a more helpful guy and I ended up buying a discontinued reel and some tying materials. You never know.

I think the ratio is about 10 to 1, good to bad, so don't give up.

 

[jaybo41]

Bad service is bad service and all it takes is one bad experience to turn me off. With that said, I remember when I first started fishing one of my favorite trout waters here in WPA. There is a fly shop right on the stream and I went in and picked up a few flys and then also asked what was good to use. Naturally, they directed me to what had been working.

While I agree that he was unhelpful to you, and turned you off from patronizing his shop, perhaps a different approach would have yielded different results.

Something along the lines of...wanting to pick up flys that are working on Stream X and then wanted to know where the stream was located.

I dunno, just my 2 cents.

 

[mattd]

Im not trying to bad talk fly shops. I've only ever had one other bad experiance at one and that was in Vermont. Most are very helpful.

 

[JackM]

I have had both good and bad experiences with fly shops. I am not one of those fly anglers who feels the need to patronize shops. I will buy things where they are least expensive unless that is trumped by convenience. However, I think it is rude and probably seen as rude to request and expect information from a fly shop without returning the favor through patronizing it.

Some fly shops are far sighted enough to treat everyone as a potential customer, if not now, then in the future. You can call on the phone, stop in without buying and get free information. They are willing to take the chance that they might get taken advantage of in exchange for the possibility that by treating you well with honest and helpful info, you will become a source of revenue through purchases. Some fly shops do not think that way.

I have been in shops where even after purchasing, they were stingy and protective with the info they shared. A lot of this depends on many factors. It may be the shop's philosophy, it may be the philosophy of the particular individual owner or employee and it may be a temporary attitude because they are having a bad day, week, season in the shop, or even in their personal life.

Some fly shops do the bulk of their business with transient customers. Others have the bulk of their revenue from regulars that are local. In these latter situations, a "stranger" asking about a lesser known stream is going to find the information a lot less forthcoming.

So, in sum, if you are looking for info from a fly shop, be prepared to purchase something. While selecting your flies, tippet, splitshots, Orvis T3, engage them in conversation. Get a feel for what info they are willing to share, then as you hand them cash, ask the "money" questions. I bet you will get a better response.

 

[jaybo41]

Very well said Jack.

 

[mattd]

I totaly agree Jack, I would have made some sort of purchase that day and I made the mistake of talking before shopping. Unfortunately the man was so rude about it that it stopped me from revisting. I had to settle for some cheap crap at ****s my next time in the area because I refused to go back. The way I look at it, even if the person isn't making a purchase at the time, you can ensure they will be back by at least being friendly and helpful. Thats the way I feel with any business but I don't know crap about running a fly shop. I have a feeling that man would have been no help even with a purchase.

 

[Acristickid]

Was at a shop in Northern CA. and they were pretty tight lipped- giving general answers to our queries.

Once the hoodie,some split shot, etc.. was on the counter the guy opened up a map of the area(which he said we would definitely need) and pointed to the weir located in Willow Creek. "This is where the steelhead and salmon stack up."

Wonder if there is a scale of the amount of money spend vs. amount of information received??

 

[dsleader]

It's definitely not the amount you buy or put on the counter. Being in the sales business for the past 12 years I have some experience with this.

Sure, if you are spending money and making me some profit, you will be treated differently - it's human nature. However, treat a sales person like he is your friend of the past 30 years, and guess what?, you'll be treated as such.

Fly shops are businesses - period! You can talk about "the customer is always right" crap, but treat people as you would like to be treated and guess what?

Do you expect to walk into a fly shop and the first thing out of your mouth is, "what are they taking and where should I go?", and expect the absolute truth?

Geeze! I expect this from kids today but.....

D

 

[Padraic]

I've seen where some flyshops located by "big name" streams are very willing to share information on that destination water. Ask about a smaller wild trout stream and suddenly no one can remember anything about trout fishing. It's not an attitude I particularly like or understand but there it is.

I agree with the poster who said that good shops are 10 to 1 on bad ones. I think the reason we remember the little slights is that we expect knowledgeable and friendly service. And we get it almost all the time.

 

[JackM]

mattd wrote:
I totaly agree Jack, I would have made some sort of purchase that day and I made the mistake of talking before shopping. Unfortunately the man was so rude about it that it stopped me from revisting..... I have a feeling that man would have been no help even with a purchase.

I had that exact experience. I read in Charlie Meck's book about a wild stream that had really rebounded because of the work of local volunteers. As Meck often does, he closed his note on the stream with "[if you are in the area, stop in a see so-and-so at the such-and-such fly shop and thank him for his work.]"

So I tried to do exactly that. I was planning to buy a few things and also thank him as Meck instructed me to do. Unfortunately, being new to the flyshop dance, I stepped inside the ramshackle shop and said "is that X Creek up the road? how's it been fishing?" The guy looked at me coldly and said "The state doesn't stock that creek." I said, "I know, I was hoping to catch some wild trout." He said, "You can't fish it, it's all private property." I replied that I would stop and ask the land owners permission and he told me they wouldn't give it to me. I left in a huff without purchasing anything and went and fished some stocked creek nearby. He lost about 40 cents in profit, but kept me off "his" and his regular customers' stream. Plus, he didn't have me knocking on doors to get permission from the same people he and his regular customers get permission from. With hindsight, he definitely got the better of me in that exchange.

 

[OhioOutdoorsman]

Having experience with fly shops in several tourist locations.....I think they resent people coming in and asking for info. Most, especially those that have guiding services, will not be rude but instead misdirect you to marginal water. The same is true of guidebooks (and internet forums)....lots of overstatement on how good second tier water is. The only way you get to good water is by hiring a guide. Its stinks but I can't say I blame them, they have a business to run and why should they spill the beans to a transient clintelle for a the purcahse of a few flies. If your're a kid or a woman you get more info......thats why I have my wife ask (who flyfishes).

 

Here, in the West, maybe we have "really, oddball fly shops" or "really nice guys, owning them", because in EVERY single, fly shop in the state of Oregon, (where I live and yes.. I have been in all of them it's why I'm broke!), as soon as you walk into their door, or at the least, very near the door, (some, even hang them in the front window!), are big, 4 X 5 foot wax marker boards!
On, these, are posted just about everything from stream/water levels, to hatches seen/recorded, recent catches, flies that are working, (say, in the past week), of course the name of the water, which fork and finally if you don't know the location........... a maps' usually laying nearby, highlighted by a yellow marker.
Some, post photos, supplied by customers of recent catches.
I was in, one shop, where the "fly that seemed to be the good one this week", was stuck into cork alongside the reader board and on sale for .99 cents. or, 2 for $1.50.
One thing, that I do like to do, when visiting a new fly shop is "buy their shop's logo hat" if they have them. One, I'm very weird and like to collect these hats, as a way to look back, on a particular trip. And, two, I've been amazed at he change of reactions from an owner, (if he's been a bit off to begin with), when he sees I'm going to be "his billboard for the day"!?!
But, I've never had to do the hat thing, in any Oregon, Washington, Idaho or Northern California fly shop. I, DO, buy the hat still but I've never "not found" the reader boards, with information I've needed!?!

 

[JackM]

I find the cold fly shops are most likely to be those with little competition in the area. Not that all such shops are cold, but where there is greater competition, they have to distinguish themselves by added services such as what flybinder mentions. Personally, I think that is a better business model even in the one-horse-town situations. In the long run, a better customer base is built.

 

[pete41]

I am strongly with the school that feels its unfair to expect fly/tackle shops to give away their product.Information of any kind relating to fishing in their area is part of their service/product.Pay for it -buy something.
REMEMBER-you get what you pay for.

 

[tomgamber]

flybinder wrote:
I have been in all of them it's why I'm broke!), as soon as you walk into their door, or at the least, very near the door, (some, even hang them in the front window!), are big, 4 X 5 foot wax marker boards!
On, these, are posted just about everything from stream/water levels, to hatches seen/recorded, recent catches, flies that are working, (say, in the past week), of course the name of the water, which fork and finally if you don't know the location........... a maps' usually laying nearby, highlighted by a yellow marker.

Ditto...its a trade off. Info costs the shop nothing to give info , but if they can make a sale for that info...its the only reason I bought flies, a new box and my leader after I got to Idaho during a trip 2 years ago. And I already knew which shop was getting my business before I ever left Pa. After 15 years of being away it was still there because they are good shop owners with a really big dry erase board.

If they won't offer stream info...they aren't businessmen...they are flyfishers who have enough money to have their own shop.

 

[MattBoyer]

Although I think I might have been reasonably well trimmed for the Jam, as some of you know, I'm a rather scrubby looking fellow when in fishing gear. As a person who is fairly well dressed in real life (read:the wife dresses me for work:lol: ), It fascinates me how quick people are to judge by your looks. I've gone into shops and been talked to like I was gonna rob the place, then gone back a few months later fresh from work, talked to the same guy, and all of a sudden I was his buddy. I shouldn't be surprised, but I always am. I never understood the whole "I'm only going to provide good service to people who look like "good" customers" rationale. When I go into a fly shop I usually know what it is that I need, buy it, maybe ask a few questions, then move on. I work in a restaurant, and I am pretty sure that if I started deciding which customers merited my time and which didn't I would soon have a lot more time to fish. It is the customer service field, and I choose to frequent shops that understand that. It's not that I wish ill upon poeple who aren't smart enough to know this, but whether I'm there for a bag of marabou or a new rod, I am still a potential future client. It's all about building good business relationships that decide whether a business will be there next year, not how much crap you can send the "orvis princes" out the door with (no offense meant, I love my orvis reel). OK, sorry for the rant. I feel better now. Maybe I should just get a haircut. :-o

Boyer

 

[Will]

The guys who are pointing out the widespread existence of chalkboards and whiteboards with current stream and hatch/fly information on them are onto something. Nearly every shop has that today and many have websites with the same information. In each case, you can get the information without buying a thing or without even stepping foot in the store in many cases. And in the days before those things became popular, every flyshop I ever went into would give the same information orally.

That suggests to me that most shop owners view it as either a common courtesy or a necessary aspect of doing business. I agree with that. For my money, the prospective customer who asks (yes, even first thing in the door) about fishing locations or conditions is not being rude, but shop owner who refuses to divulge any basic information along those lines until a sale takes place is the one being rude (and more than a little stupid). And for the record, I cannot remember the last time I left a flyshop without having bought something.

Having said that - this isn't really where the discussion started. The original example was about a shop owner who refused to discuss (probably even lied about) a nearby wild (presumably small) stream. I tend to agree with those who feel like if the customer comes in knowing about the stream already and just asks directions, it seems rude to refuse or play dumb. But I do feel like that's a little closer to the line. It is true that shop owners cannot tell everyone who asks about fishing that they should visit that little brookie stream up the hill, without ruining the thing. They see too many people in a day. I guess what turns it for me is if the person has done their research enough to know about it and get that close to it, you're just making them jump through extra hoops to get there.