Fly Rods vs Types Of Fishing

[jbewley]

I have been reading several of the John Gierach books, that I had not read before. In one, he talks about salmon fishing and mentions trolling, as a good method.

I have no doubt that it would work, but I am not sure that a fly rod is the best rod to use. I trolling rod, with a bait casting reel would be better suited.

I, personally, feel that a spinning rod, would be better suited for streamers, unless it was for a short strip.

My point and question is not that you can not do any of these things with a fly rod, but are they the best application??

Jim

 

[troutbert]

I have no experience with trolling, other than the internet type.

But regarding fishing with streamers, you could fish those with spin gear. With heavily weighted streamers it would have some advantages in being able to cast far and easily.

But when "working" a streamer with fly gear, it's common to create movement by a combination of movements of the rod tip with the right hand, and the fly line with the left hand (for right-handed flyfishers.)

With spin gear, if you tried to manipulate the 4 pound mono with your left hand in the way you do with fly line, that might not work so well. You'd likely get the mono snarled up.

 

[Bamboozle]

I gave up throwing big flies with big gear years ago.

I just don't enjoy trying to throw heavy flies or big flies with a rod suited to throwing something that big, just so I can say I got my fish on a fly rod.

As a result, 99% of my LM bass fishing is done with baitcasting gear and I only fly fish for smallies with trout sized streamers, nymphs or small poppers.

Saltwater is totally non-fly fishing.

 

[bigjohn58]

I recently watched an episode of The New Flyfisher I believe where they were fishing the Niagra River. They were basically bottom bouncing in extremely deep water. A fly rod was definitely not the right tool for the job but they were making it work. I'm a firm bealiever in using the correct tool for the job BUT I also do not believe in using conventional gear for trout. I guess ya got to break the rules sometimes!

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear jbewley,

I cannot speak for John Gierach, but I know from having inherited a family based in New Hampshire that that fly rod trolling for trout and salmon is still an accepted and oft used method.

Of course you cannot troll with flies for lakers or salmon in July when they are 100 foot plus deep. But many people up in New England rig fly rods to canoes, and kayaks today. They paddle to fish using feather streamers, like Grey Ghosts, and Hornbergs, and smelt patterns. They do it in the Spring when fish are shallow, and again in the Fall when they return from the depths to feed before ice comes on.

The fish aren't appreciably different than they were 150 years ago. If it worked then, it will work now.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[jbewley]

I'm a firm bealiever in using the correct tool for the job
BUT I also do not believe in using conventional gear for trout.
I guess ya got to break the rules sometimes!

I tend to agree with you.

The fish aren't appreciably different than they were 150 years ago. If it worked then, it will work now.

I completely agree that it can be done and there is no right or wrong. In the book, they were going very deep with heavily weighted lines. I am just not sure I see the point. To me it would be like using the wrong tool for the job.

Jim

 

[redietz]

I am just not sure I see the point.

Because it'd the traditional way of fishing for land locked salmon. A generation or three back, people owned one rod, not a quiver of them, and if you lived in trout/salmon country, that one rod was a fly rod. When Carrie Stevens or Herb Welch designed those classic streamers on 10x long hooks, they were designed for trolling with a fly rod, not for casting.

 

[afishinado]

Bamboozle wrote:
I gave up throwing big flies with big gear years ago.

I just don't enjoy trying to throw heavy flies or big flies with a rod suited to throwing something that big, just so I can say I got my fish on a fly rod.

As a result, 99% of my LM bass fishing is done with baitcasting gear and I only fly fish for smallies with trout sized streamers, nymphs or small poppers.

Saltwater is totally non-fly fishing.

^ Your mileage varies from mine for sure!

One of the things that makes FFing so much fun for me is the variety of exciting experiences to be had.

FFing with surface flies and poppers for LMB around the lilly pads and stumps and wood is great fun that I really enjoy doing. The same with the thrill of fly-fishing for muskies or pike. Fishing the proper weight rod to match the flies you fish is the key.

I look at SW FFing as the ultimate thrill. Striper fishing is fun and redfish are a real hoot. But sight-fishing for bonefish and permit FFing is a great challenge, and some of the greatest moments FFing in my entire life has been fishing for and catching tarpon.

Again, having the proper tackle and learning to use it makes it a great challenge and the ultimate thrill for me.

I couldn't even imagine having to limit my FFing only to trout. Remember 75% of the Earth is covered by water and the vast majority of that is in lakes and the ocean...

 

[Bamboozle]

I get the right equipment thing, I just don't enjoy fly fishing when the line weights are high and the flies big.

I used to like it, but I find it to be too much like work and not fun anymore but obviously, YMMV.

For me these days fly fishing is strictly a trout and panfish thing although I still target smallies, however that's with a 6wt and trout sized flies.

In regards to LMB, I actually find using baitcasting tackle with surface lures & soft plastics to be more fun than fly fishing and scary effective, but that's me.

 

[tztrout]

LL Bean had a fly rod geared specifically for trolling streamers in the traditional manner offered in their catalog for many years. Not sure if it is still available.

 

[JackM]

And 25% of streams have wild trout. Up from 24% a decade ago.

 

[JerryC]

I switched to fly fishing when I got tired of fishing with ultra light gear. I have trolled with a fly rod. A couple of times in salt water when running through schools of small bluefish. I used a floating line with small popper. I've done it several times in Canada using a sinking line for streamers and a floating line for top water. I have a 10 inch fighting butt for my 8 wgt so it can sit in a rod holder and the reel's drag can be tightened down to allow a hook up on a strike. I still, at times, use spinning gear for bass fishing. I like top waters and it's difficult to get the "walk the dog" action with a fly rod, or the gurgling and wobbling action of Jitterbug. I have flies that I can get that type action with but it's a lot of work. Though it's more fun to catch a big bass on a fly rod.

 

[RLeep2]

I've been moving away from fly fishing for the sake of fly fishing for a while now and moving towards using the type of tackle that I think will produce the best results for me.

For example, I'll decide to fly fish for LMB in a lake where I know the fish get over- Rapalaized (a phrase I just invented..) and beaten to death with plastics because I know I can do novel things with a fly that can't really be done with spin or casting gear, or at least not that I know how to do. This can give me an edge in catching more fish period..

Conversely, I fish a number of WW streams for smallmouth that even at their clearest, you can't stick your hand in more than a foot or two and be able to count your fingers. I'll wobble retrieve Rapalas or maybe bright colored Flatfish in these places and I think it gives me an edge over fly fishing given the prevailing conditions.

Etc...

Someone said upthread (I think..) "best tools for the conditions".
That's where I've been for a while.

 

[larkmark]

The way I fish streamers is totally dependent on using my flyrod. It is definitely the right tool for the job for me. I could not do most of what I do using a weighted streamer on a spinning rod.

 

[bigjohn58]

larkmark wrote:
The way I fish streamers is totally dependent on using my flyrod. It is definitely the right tool for the job for me. I could not do most of what I do using a weighted streamer on a spinning rod.

BUT...is there a soft plastic lure that basically works just like your fly that could be fished on a spinning rod? I just know IF a fly rod was the most productive rod to be using for bass then the pro bass fishermen would be using them. I personally feel that a fly rod is more of a challenge hence why people enjoy using them for other species. Very seldom is fly fishing the best way to target a species other then trout and maybe panfish. I fish conventional (spinning and baitcasting) gear for bass, musky, etc 99% of the time because it is more productive. I am however fishing more for those species with the fly rod just to say I've done it.

 

[Swattie87]

I'm more comfortable and find it easier to fish most traditional streamers with a fly rod and fly line.

That said, there are some streamers out there now that are much closer to jigs in terms of weight, than a relatively light weight streamer. One in particular I struggle with and find difficult to fish with fly equipment is a dumbbell eyed, heavily weighted crayfish type pattern for SMB. These are heavy and are meant to be fished on the bottom. They're difficult/dangerous to cast and I find it difficult to get the proper "bouncing on the bottom" action on them by stripping line in with my hand. I think this type of fishing is frankly more effective with a spinning or casting outfit with a higher gear ratio reel than 1:1. You can also then just use a traditional jig, with a soft plastic trailer, which I think is heavier and more effective than a crawfish fly pattern. The fly pattern, though heavy enough to be difficult to cast, is still not heavy enough to be as effective as a proper jig. The crawfish fly pattern is basically a compromise of sorts, just to be able to fish it on a fly rod.

There was a time when I was learning FFing, and enjoying the learning process, that I didn't fish a spin rod for a couple of years probably. I've moved past that now. Generally, I fish the tackle best suited for the conditions and application. (Unless I'm at a PAFF sponsored event. :hammer: )

In low/clear conditions, Brookie fishing during the Summer, or when bugs are hatching, a fly rod will crush spinning tackle. In high and off color water for Trout, spinners on an UL spinning rod are the most effective IMO though. Streamers work well here too, but you can fish more efficiently and cover more water (and thus catch more fish) using a spinning outfit. There's still times where I just feel like using fly equipment anyway...And that trumps all...If I'm just in the mood to FF I do.

 

[Bamboozle]

bigjohn58 wrote:
I just know IF a fly rod was the most productive rod to be using for bass then the pro bass fishermen would be using them.

Ain't that the truth!!

Those short 8wts went over like a lead balloon with the market they were targeted at.

 

[Steeltrap]

Pro bass fisher people abide by the rules of the game. Likely spinners catch more and bigger bass, but restrict them to fly fishing equipment and they will still do their thing.

BTW, I really don't consider them "fishermen". More like meat haulers. They don't play the fish......they horse 'em in. Not the way I want my grandkids to learn fishing.

MHO

 

[Bamboozle]

Steeltrap wrote:
Pro bass fisher people abide by the rules of the game. Likely spinners catch more and bigger bass, but restrict them to fly fishing equipment and they will still do their thing.

BTW, I really don't consider them "fishermen". More like meat haulers. They don't play the fish......they horse 'em in. Not the way I want my grandkids to learn fishing.

MHO

"Horsing 'em in" means less time "playing" them which is related to time saving, an important aspect of the tournament game. However, horsing means less time stressing out a fish which usually means a better survival rate. I might be accused of horsing my trout in with a fly rod for that very reason.

You don't have to dig what they do, but as far as not being fishermen, I've spent time in a boat with a few of the top pros. I'd venture to guess they would fish just about any fly angler under the table with their knowledge of their quarry, conditions and techniques.

They've forgot more things than any bass fly-rodder I've encountered except possibility Lefty Kreh & Bob Clouser.

I've asked a few why they shun fly gear when they can use it; the same reasons come up time and time again: it takes too much time, it's less adaptable to changing conditions and less effective.

 

[afishinado]

I enjoy fly-fishing and choose to use fly tackle over other tackle choices.

When I hunted, I chose to bow hunt over rifle hunting.

I guess it's not about the numbers of game or fish or choosing what's easier, it's more about the challenge.

Plus with all my fly rod outfits, equipment and fly tying stuff I own, I cringe when I think about having to buy different types rod outfits, tackle and lures and equipment to fish for all the types of fishing I do.

Like a lot of things, there's no "right" answer so to each his own.