Flies vs Flies

[jandmcustomlures]

Maybe someone can shed some light on this. Being new to fly fishing I am just getting my toes wet with the dry flies. I am used to the wet flies and in NY that are typicaly used, well for me under a float and center pin. The big thing I see and from what i am learning is that the NY fish maybe because mostly hatchery trout are used to hitting egg sacs and flies of various bright colors pink and chartruse being a big one.
Has anyne fished there with the dry flies for steelhead or browns ?
Also will the stocked trout around here act in the same behavior ?

I obviously understand that the brookies would probably think they seen an alien if something bright pink and chartruse came floating by, they would probably swim out of thier spots. But will the Natives go for wet flies such as the egg sucking leech or wooley bugger in black.
I hate to sound so unedjucated with the trout of PA being thats where I am from but, I was brought up fishing for steelhead and salmon in NY and never did get into the trout around here as my father didn't.

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Rod_Hertzer]

From what I've learned and from what others have told me, you'd like your fly to look natural or semi-natural. You will find trout (stocked and wild) that will take anything on any given day so something flashy isn't out of the question. After getting caught and released several times, it seems to be one end of the spectrum or the other. The fly must look super natural or super alien.

Trout are trout. Just remember that when you get on a stream (many of our limestoners), the fish have seen just about everything and will be more critical of your fly selection and presentation. If you throw what looks to be a great match and they refuse it, go nuts and throw them a purple sparkle leech. You might be amazed at their reaction.

 

[jandmcustomlures]

Thanks Rod, it makes sense. Out of 147 views you were the only one willing to leave a comment.

 

[pete41]

I did an experiment for myself in Montana-
using the marabou muddler size 4 as the fly-
fishing for browns in the fall
three colors I could not get hits on or serious looks[this is a slightly subsurface fly,you see the look overs as the fish have to rise].
orange,red and blue
Black,brown,olive,green,white,yellow all about equal-
however a black stonefly nymph or dry with orange body is a Montana staple-
so color is a tricky subject-
amended

 

[boss_steb]

You might be surprised...size is key as well what is in your streams...Trout are egg predators...again, though, size and action of the presented fly are critical. I have fished over natives who can hardly resist something a bit flashy and pink...presentation seems to make a big difference in those situations...

Boss

 

[gfen]

I apologize, it appeared you were asking about flies for salmon and steelhead, specifically dry flies for each.

Lee Wulff was a proponent of skated dries for salmon, FWIW.

Are you asking specifically for fly suggestions for recommended flies for general PA trouts fishing?

When it comes to flies in general, fish don't have fingers. If it might be food, it has only one wan to find out.

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, depends on the situation.

In my experience, for rainbows, wild or stocked, an egg imitation is a decent choice anytime. They seem genetically dispositioned towards eggs. Browns, it can be, but not always. For instance, it can be deadly during the sucker run, or following spawning steelhead up a tributary. But much of the other times, its not a great choice.

Wooly buggers are a fine choice for all types of trout. It's essentially a streamer. Streamers work. The woolly bugger is a staple.

Dry flies for steelhead? Nope, never did it. I've seen video of people doing it successfully, real late in March with a blue winged olive hatch. But I think its pretty dang rare. Common nymphs, such as pheasant tails, hare's ears, and stonefly nymphs, are commonly successful though.

As far as dries, there are times when they can be used with a high level of success. Usually thats during a hatch or spinner fall, and its pretty obvious as the fish are rising around you. These are the moments we live for, the visual nature of dry fly fishing makes it very enjoyable. But don't get us wrong, there's still lots of times that the fish aren't rising, and you'd be much better off with nymphs, traditional soft hackled wets, streamers, eggs, etc. There's a time and a place for everything. Thats the fun of stream trout fishing, figuring it out.

 

[jandmcustomlures]

Thanks for the input ! gfen I was trying to get a feel and understanding of the trout feeding habits that differ between PA and NY. I grew up alawys fishing with a wet, streamer,egg imt, type of flies or egg sac or chunk of skein for the trout & steelhead in NY. I am literally jumping into the PA stream feet first with fly fishing. I have alawys used spin gear or Pin. But as stated by Pcray watching a fish rise and take your offering off the top of the water is a picture I hope to see. It is just like comparing apples to oranges though. NY type of flies seem to be wet,streamer,egg imt and flashy type of flys where here in PA even the stocked trout seem to be fished with more natural bait weather it be waxies thrown by the baitchuckers or dry flies by the flyfisherman. I was just trying to understand the difference from what seems to be the norm for NY flies Vs PA flies flashy vs the dry and more realistic. I never seen anyone or talked to anyone who fished in ny with dry flies or fished in pa with flashy marabou streamers or such. Thanks all for some insight well appriciated.

 

[gfen]

Without trying to sound exceptionally arrogant, I don't catch stockies. They avoid whatever it is I do like the plague, but I seem to have acceptable luck with the natives.

There's a list of flies in one of the beginner forums, its simple and short. Its a great jumping off point. You fish one of the dry flies when you see fish bumping the top by matching as best you can. If there's nothing up top, just KISS with a hare's ear or a pheasant tail.

You'll catch plenty of fish as long as they're there.

Oh, and salmon on a dry fly? As referneced earlier, Lee Wulff and friends were fans of the Prefontaine skater in size 16.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Cnfq2FsqlhYC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=prefontaine+fly+pattern&source=bl&ots=DDsPdNjjNV&sig=HjvkCFmcS6RP8J-DNevf2IVD3Gc&hl=en&ei=CmBcTcO_CsTdgQfj3-S_DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=prefontaine%20fly%20pattern&f=false

Good luck with that.

 

[govtmule]

jandmcustomlures,
You are talking about apples and oranges (kind of). when you say NY trout i guess you are referring to great lake trib trout as opposed to say the Delaware. The flies you describe will work, take some of them make them smaller and take some flash out and you'll be closer to normal flies for stream trout. Id say have more flies that look more like the natural insects in the stream you are fishing, you are not trying to pi$$ off the fish like steelhead fishing, unless you throw some big bad streamers, different story there. Like Gfen said, check out the beginner forum and keep asking..

jeff

 

[jandmcustomlures]

Thanks ! Thats what it seemes to me is that the Tributary trout weather they were stocked or any natives seem to feed on alot different things than the Stream trout. I like and look foward to the challenge of the natives where they spook easily and are real fussy about what they are taking a chance on. So with that all being said, with Dry flys that match the hatch a good percentage will be natives and not stockies or will the stockies feed off the hatch flys as well ? Thanks for the all the time and help. And your right trib fishing vs the deleware or streams IS apples and oranges. I never never understood or really recognized the big difference until I started looking into fly fishing. I never thought I would once again have to ask questons on how to catch trout lol.

 

[govtmule]

stockies will definitely feed on top (dries), usually they are easier to fool than a wild trout but streams that get a ton of pressure may be just as hard. Best to get out and see what they want....you can usually fool stockies in spring with a caddis...theres usually some around on every stream. skitter it, pull it under, pop it....no need for that drag free drift when fishing a caddis on top..

 

[jayL]

I make it a point to catch one on a dry during the opening day mob scene every year. Didn't get a chance last year, but the prior two or three were successful.

Look for the stragglers that have moved out of the holes (bunkers!) and you'll find the fish that have learned how to feed properly. Caddis are a good choice, but I usually like to use a black stone so I can say I matched the hatch. A few years back, I spotted a fish that was stationed closer to the surface around a bunch of bait fishermen and tossed him a caddis. A little kid in the crowd saw the whole thing happen and started throwing a tantrum about how he wanted to fly fish. That was bittersweet. I couldn't find another riser to hook for the little guy, unfortunately.

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, there are certainly differences in the way stocked and wild trout act, you can see it when they're in the same water. But its not easy for any of us to really explain those differences because there's so many different situations and all fish act differently in each.

Just doesn't seem to be a lot of parallel between the wild and stocked.

Generally, you can split it up in two extremes, based on pressure and fertility of the water. Of course there are streams that fall in between, but this gets the point across.

1. Heavily pressured, fertile water. Fish feed in cycles, they dont' feed all the time. When they do feed, they're choosier, ignoring one bug in favor of another. This requires good presentation, good imitations, etc. And it requires getting the timing right on the fish's schedule. But put it all together, and the fish do feed heavily at those times and really focus on that one food item, so you can do real well.

2. Less pressured, low fertility water. These fish are opportunistic. They will feed just about anytime, and your presentation doesn't have to be perfect, nor does your fly. They're easy fish. The trade-off is these fish are usually spookier. i.e. if you don't spook em, you're gonna catch em. But its real easy to ruin a whole pool with one little screw up. And they may not feed again that day, whereas spooked fish in group #1 may calm down in just a few minutes after a screw up.

This is all pretty predictable for wild fish, but the stockies sometimes defy this logic, and will be easy when they should be hard, or hard when they should be easy. All I can say is get out and try it.

 

[jandmcustomlures]

Thanks guys for the input I will take a few of the early season hatch flies and keep some junk in the pocket too. I guess if all fails throw them the San Juan lol.

 

[flipnfly]

save them black wooley buggers it helps to have olive ones with short tails too or just tie wooley worms

 

[jandmcustomlures]

I took notice that when water is muddy or cloudy Black buggers work well because of the silouette. What size is best ? I heard some saying go big or go home use a 8 or 6. Will white buggers stand out in merky water as well ? I heard anything red will just get washed out and not be visable.

 

[flipnfly]

i mainly keep my buggers on the smaller side but i do have a few size 4's and 6's mainly 8's and 10's also i have never had too much luck on a brown bugger but thats me personally