FLATHEAD TAKEOVER OF SUSQUEHANNA RIVER

[larkmark]

Some small tribs in lower Susquehanna watershed still have Rock Bass but not in the numbers or size we used to see. Those same tribs have some Redbreasts. Areas below Holtwood Dam used to have large numbers of Rock Bass and Green Sunfish in 1980s. Now gone. The large trib, Conestoga CK. had Fallfish in great numbers on certain sections The last several times I checked they were gone. I do see more birds but I have no idea what has happened.
Flatheads reproduce like crazy and they eat a lot. If they compete for limited forage and also directly prey on already stressed SMB then they have an impact no doubt. Time will tell. I now kill them but most do not around here. They are not bad eating but I no longer eat fish from river very often.

 

[moon1284]

River systems like the Delaware and susquehanna are pretty large. It us extremely unlikely an introduced or invasive species will permanently destroy a fishery. Habitat degradation and pollution pose much more of a risk.

I'm pretty familiar with the lower great lakes. Two major populations of fish that are extinct are Atlantic salmon (habitat degradation) and blue pike (nobody really knows but invasive predators arent thought to be a cause). When species go extinct it us usually due to something below them on the food chain, not something above them. This is pretty basic, like 9th grade biology. Zebra mussels, round gobies, spiny water flea, Asian carp, etc. were all going to cause the demise of the great lakes. Last I checked people are still catching 7# smallmouth, limits of kings, cohos, steelhead, browns, lake trout, 10# yellow pike, potential world record muskies, etc. in the lower great lakes.

 

[HopBack]

Areas below Holtwood Dam used to have large numbers of Rock Bass and Green Sunfish in 1980s. Now gone.

You have now made 2 statements which are not true at all.

1. Stripers/perch are gone below the conowingo dam- myself and others catch plenty of each species. When you target flathead, that's what you catch, It's becoming more popular, perhaps more popular than striper fishing.


2. The rock bass and green sunfish below holtwood are gone- not even close, rock hop a bit and you will find massive numbers along with crayfish, minnows, and other forage species.

 

[Dave_W]

I am cautiously optimistic that panfish may - big emphasis on may - be making a small comeback in the Susky around Harrisburg in my experience.

The last couple years I have wade fished the Susky I am seeing sunfish pretty frequently... here and there. All that I have caught have been red-breasts. Rock bass are less common but I have seen or caught a handful.
They are much more common in the lower Juniata and this population along with the tribs has to be feeding some fish out into the river.

Would be interesting to see a study of FH diet from the river. With sunfish relatively scarce, the large fish must be predating on other fishes.
Hhmmm...

 

[krayfish2]

Just caught the other day. They aren't going anywhere and they are quite large.

BTW, the number of catfish charter boats on the river has doubled or tripled. The other thing you'll see is the bow fishing / carp shooting barges. 6-12 people and 50 floodlights. I can tell you that I used to see carp all the time. Rarely see them now and if you do, they are so skittish they bolt for their lives.

 

[BrookieChaser]

I hear you on the carp, Krayfish. I've also had another Susquehanna bass guide tell me the same thing.

The last time I fished the Susquehanna for carp the few I seen were so skittish I couldn't get near them. I all but gave up fishing for carp in Central PA.

I wonder what the results will be for the fishery with the low carp numbers?

 

[jifigz]

Carp are also way, way down in the Juniata..I see bowbunters often while traveling roads paralleling the river. I know flatties have been up here for at least 5 years but still aren't significant.

 

[larkmark]

I laugh everytime I see these huge and expensive river jets set up for catfish and carp and guys with "team flathead" logos or some such ridiculous stuff on tee shirts etc.

Hopback-I am glad you are finding these big numbers of Rock Bass and Rockfish. Apparently I am just old and lame and don't see these things like I used to. But if the river is improving I am all for it.

 

[poopdeck]

larkmark wrote:
I laugh everytime I see these huge and expensive river jets set up for catfish and carp and guys with "team flathead" logos or some such ridiculous stuff on tee shirts etc.

Like when I see the guy in his expensive waders, expensive rod/reel, five tray chest box w/5000 flies dressed like a living billboard for Sage. Funnier still is when they are fishing a small trickle for 4" fish.

 

[jifigz]

poopdeck wrote:

larkmark wrote:
I laugh everytime I see these huge and expensive river jets set up for catfish and carp and guys with "team flathead" logos or some such ridiculous stuff on tee shirts etc.

Like when I see the guy in his expensive waders, expensive rod/reel, five tray chest box w/5000 flies dressed like a living billboard for Sage. Funnier still is when they are fishing a small trickle for 4" fish.

+1. This is so true. And hilarious.

 

[jifigz]

And if anyone cares, catfishing is extremely fun and catfish are a tremendous gamefish, in my opinion. I can understand why people take it seriously. Some of my favorite fishing memories have been chasing catfish.

 

[afishinado]

Fredrick wrote:
Funny part is that everyone is worried about snakeheads, when in reality you should be worried about the flathead and blue catfish making their way up the river .

 

[Fredrick]

So does this mean that the fishing in the lower Skuke is going to be better than it was before the flatheads invaded. Still waiting if it will because they shocked one section I fish and found not one smallie were I was catching lots a fish there two years prior .

 

[afishinado]

Fredrick wrote:
So does this mean that the fishing in the lower Skuke is going to be better than it was before the flatheads invaded. Still waiting if it will because they shocked one section I fish and found not one smallie were I was catching lots a fish there two years prior .

For the disappearance of smallies in the lower Skuke, some blame the flatheads, some blame the snakeheads, others claim the habitat has become poor because of siltation caused by development and/or dam removals. Take your pick.

 

[Mike]

For biologists it is not an either/or discussion. We don't want any new invasive fish introduced and establishing reproducing populations outside of their natural bio-geographical range.

 

[HopBack]

Flathead = Thanos

Introduce flatheads, wipe out half of all fish species, and watch the river begin to thrive!

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

For the disappearance of smallies in the lower Skuke, some blame the flatheads, some blame the snakeheads, others claim the habitat has become poor because of siltation caused by development and/or dam removals.

Can you explain the theory regarding dam removals causing siltation and thereby harming smallmouth populations?

 

[afishinado]

troutbert wrote:

afishinado wrote:

For the disappearance of smallies in the lower Skuke, some blame the flatheads, some blame the snakeheads, others claim the habitat has become poor because of siltation caused by development and/or dam removals.

Can you explain the theory regarding dam removals causing siltation and thereby harming smallmouth populations?

I don't believe the dam removal had any bad effects on the River, but there are some that do. No basis for it, IMO but anglers can believe whatever they believe.

 

[larkmark]

jifigz wrote:
And if anyone cares, catfishing is extremely fun and catfish are a tremendous gamefish, in my opinion. I can understand why people take it seriously. Some of my favorite fishing memories have been chasing catfish.

I hear you . I have nice memories of fishing a small creek as a boy. We would catch Bullheads. I haven't caught or seen one in years and would like to try for them again.

 

[FarmerDave]

troutbert wrote:

Can you explain the theory regarding dam removals causing siltation and thereby harming smallmouth populations?

It's called physics, not theory.

My response is speaking in general because that is the way the question was asked, and I am really just stating the obvious.

1. Impoundments capture silt, meaning silt that would normally be traveling downstream is captured in the headwater of the reservoir where the current slows. I don't care how big or small the impoundment is, this happens. So dams do reduce the amount of silt below the dam compared to that which enters the impoundment. Well, at least until the impoundment completely fills up with silt.;-)

B. Removing said dam not only allows that silt to travel downstream, it releases that which was previously captured.

IMO That is often the biggest, if not the only downside with small dam removal from an environmental standpoint, and vast majority of this negative is short term.

My glasses are not tinted rose colored. One needs to weigh the good with the bad, and the environmental good resulting from removing small dams almost always outweighs the bad. The good list is long.

If you are asking specifically about just the skuke, this is way out of my stomping grounds, so I have no idea if this is a major contributer to decline in bass populations on that stream. But the physics is the same in Eastern PA as it is everywhere.

I'd imagine new development has a greater impact.