FLATHEAD TAKEOVER OF SUSQUEHANNA RIVER

[larkmark]

I have a theory I think the Flathead Catfish is increasing in numbers to the point of taking over the whole river. There are so many and they eat a lot of the forage species not to mention the bass and sunfish etc.
We are seeing a very poor start to bass fishing in the lower river but the Flathead fishing is great if you like that sort of thing. I am also puzzled by the new catch and release on these invasives. Seems the fish comm now is viewing them as the next great sport fish. Would like to hear what others think on this.

 

[jifigz]

I think that the PFBC is taking the logical approach because they realize that extermination of flatheads is impossible. Also, they realize that anglers will do with them what they please, either harvest, kill, or release. They may encourage us to do harvest/kill them but flatheads have a horde of admirers who would obviously not do that. After all, they are a big, powerful gamefish with a voracious appetite. I always loved catfishing and would like to catch one myself. The Susquehanna, and to a lesser extent it's major tribs, have long been hailed as some of the best smallie rivers in the country. While smallies are prized and I love them so much they will definitely negatively impact the smallie populations.

 

[jifigz]

On a side note generally species numbers grow rather quickly when first introduced into a new system and do sort of "takeover" but eventually the system seems to return to some sort of balance. There have been prized redbreast fisheries in Georgia and Florida that have been pretty much decimated by flatheads. I hope that doesn't happen up here on the Juniata as I really value the redbreasts. Today on my canoe trip down the river I saw 3 very sizable channel cats but no flatheads. They are certainly here, though.

 

[larkmark]

Here on the lower river below Conowingo in Maryland there was good fishing for Striped Bass all summer for many years. Every evening fishermen would be lined up right below the dam. The Striped Bass follow the White Perch and stack up in there. Gradually the fishing has become almost completely Flatheads because they are now eating the abundant perch. Our sunfish have been gone for years. We used to have abundant Green Sunfish and other kinds along with Crappies and Rock Bass. They were gone before the Flatheads so that is another story.

 

[jifigz]

The Rock bass have been gone for quite some time in the Juniata as well, so that is another story. There is certainly nothing that can be done about the flatheads. Time will tell what our river systems will become. Flatheads are native to the Allegheny and they still have a good and diverse fishery so I'm sure that we will be fine.

Just remember that smallies, Rock bass, walleye, muskies, and channel cats are NIT NATIVE to the Susquehanna watershed.

 

[Acristickid]

Smallmouth are actually native to the Ohio river- Mississippi Basin.

I’ve heard the flatheads are voracious eaters.

 

[Dave_W]

We've had this conversation many times before....

I think Larkmark's views are too pessimistic and I'm skeptical of the claims that FH are to blame for the river's woes. . . but I'm open to considering problematic results of FH in the Susky watershed.

I do have a theory of my own: FH in the Susky have benefited from another invasive, the rusty crayfish. Studies have revealed that juvenile FH eat a lot of crayfish. The lower Susky is stupid with crayfish and the massive amount of this prey species available has fueled the spread and growth of FH.

Whatever the case, we need more studies of catties and FH in particular.

 

[Mike]

Long before there was a single flathead in the lower Susquehanna, poor starts to the smallmouth fishery in late June and July were common.

 

[Swattie87]

What are you guys seeing as far as the Redbreast population in the main stem Susky and J?

I haven't gotten to fish the Swatara due to high flows in nearly 2 years, but prior to that I too started to notice less panfish. Redbreasts are by far the most common species in the Swatara, but I was catching less of them the last few years, especially on the lower river...Say Hershey and downstream. Been a good long (5+ years?) while since I caught a Rock Bass...it's like they're completely gone. Are they? Smallmouth and Fallfish catch rates and sizes have seemed basically the same though. I've never caught a Flathead in the Swattie FWIW.

 

[afishinado]

Mike wrote:
Long before there was a single flathead in the lower Susquehanna, poor starts to the smallmouth fishery in late June and July were common.

Lol....back-in-the-day (when I looked at a paper calendar instead of a digital one) it wasn't until I flipped the page to August as to when I expected the smallie fishing to really turn on.

So no need to panic about tough fishing. The River flow and temps have been yo-yoing up and down and the River has been murky at best and chocolate milk colored at worst.

In August the River starts getting in good shape for fishing by clearing and with lower and more stable flows and stable water temps.....2018 excepted.

Keep trying, and things will happen......2018 excepted.

 

[jifigz]

That's interesting that you folks seem to think that August is when the smallie fishing really gets good in the Susky. I certainly don't share that same sentiment considering the Juniata.

As far as redbreasts go in the main stem of the J it is basically filthy with them. And Rockies aren't totally gone but they sure are a lot more scarce than they were 15 years ago.

And I'm aware that smallies are native to the Ohio/Allegheny rivers (as are flatheads) which is why I stated they are NOT NATIVE to the Susky watershed. Flatheads and smallies seem to coexist just fine in the Allegheny.

 

[Fredrick]

Funny part is that everyone is worried about snakeheads, when in reality you should be worried about the flathead and blue catfish making their way up the river .

 

[Swattie87]

jifigz wrote:

As far as redbreasts go in the main stem of the J it is basically filthy with them. And Rockies aren't totally gone but they sure are a lot more scarce than they were 15 years ago.

Good to hear. I like them a lot. It was my plan to fish the J more anyway (if flows allow it).

 

[Acristickid]

Never really thought about the co-existence of those species in Allegheny river. Humm.

 

[HopBack]

Here on the lower river below Conowingo in Maryland there was good fishing for Striped Bass all summer for many years. Every evening fishermen would be lined up right below the dam. The Striped Bass follow the White Perch and stack up in there. Gradually the fishing has become almost completely Flatheads because they are now eating the abundant perch.

uhhh I have a couple of friends that have done well at the dam this year when targeting stripers. There are tons of striped bass around. Ive also been out in a kayak myself this year twice and been very happy with my catch rate.

No doubt costal striper numbers are declining but I cant say the same is true for the upper bay area.

Now smallmouth bass..... haven't seen or caught one of those below the conowingo in 3 years of fishing down there.

 

[fly_flinger]

acristickid wrote:
Never really thought about the co-existence of those species in Allegheny river. Humm.

From what I have seen and read about the Allegheny, every fish in freshwater seems to live in it and are doing well. I guess it all depends on what section of river but from the dam down 20+ miles there is a very diverse fishery with fish people think will ruin the mighty Susq. - musky, pike, catfish(and even the most invasive-brown trout). If you've seen pictures of the fish taken from this river, everything seems to be thriving. Some absolute monsters, of many species, come from it.

I agree with whoever basically said it will balance itself out over time.

 

[larkmark]

Clearly the Susquehanna Smallmouth fishery has it's own set of challenges. I may seem negative but I have watched several waterways over the last 40 +years and feel I am entitled to my opinions. I certainly hope the Flathead population stays in balance and the Bass continue to thrive.
I recall Bob Clouser getting up at a PA Fish Comm meeting many years ago and expressing his concerns about low populations of Bass and other fish in the river. This was well before the big crash. The Fish Comm at that time said it was a cyclical thing and not to worry. The Rock bass NEVER came back in all these years and the sunfish are also next to gone. Crappies same thing. And yeah August can be good but I have had good fishing in July MANY times. So we shall see.

 

[Duff]

My home water is the lower Delaware - Yardley to Riegelsville . Our sunnies disappeared years before the flatheads arrived. There are rock bass in the tribs. But only one year in the last 25 did I see a spike of large rock bass. Then in 2 yrs, completely gone again.

What I do see significantly a lot more of are herons(blue and green), mergansers and cormorants. Of course we also have the recovery of eagles and osprey. My guess is that they are more a factor for bass and pan fish decline here.

 

[poopdeck]

Duff, we share the same home waters. I agree there are a lot more birds on the river then ever before, especially eagles. It would be uncommon to not see multiple Eagles on any given day. However, birds are land and air based. Flatheads and snakeheads are water based therefore, I would think, have a greater probability of eating more fish then a bird. Plus, wouldn't these birds also eat the catfish? I know this view is overly simplistic but that's just how I think.

It's also mildly intriguing to me that suspecting the FH and SH as even a slight bit responsible is so easily and quickly dismissed as fear mongering. One cannot dismiss the FH's and SH's, as well as birds, as serious candidates when their populations are growing and others are shrinking. I haven't seen a sunfish, rock bass, white perch or crayfish in the nontidal river in over a decade. Fallfish are also pretty nonexistent. Just what are the FH's and SH's eating?

my experience is the dog days of august is one of the worst months to fish for SMB. Perhaps it's because I don't like going fishing on hot humid days but the fishing definitely slows for me in August.

 

[jifigz]

Poopdeck,

Catfish tend to hang out in deeper waters during the day when osprey, eagles, etc are all hunting. Redbreast sunfish, in my experience angling for them, often hang out in very shallow water seeking cover tight to the shoreline. These are also the areas hunted by herons and their relatives. They are also in other slack water/shallow current break areas. It is much easier for an eagle/osprey to grab a fish in shallow water than it is in deeper water. If is also much easier to attack and carry off a fish that weighs 1/2 lb instead of a 10 on cattie. Eagles and ospreys preferred food is fish, after all.

Rock bass, when they were here, often overlapped with redbreast sunnies but they were also found in deeper holes where I typically wouldn't find redbreasts. They have all but vanished and that is still a big mystery to me.

I hadn't thought of the serious impact of eagles/ospreys/herons on the fish populations but I know that we have a lot of both here along the Juniata. Also, as mentioned, I definitely see more mergansers around than I used to.