Fishing with weedless flies

[Baron]

Weedless flies are rarely if ever mentioned. Fishing places where milfoil and cabbage fill in the surface and Lilys cover the rest are seemingly impossible to fish by the time summer arrives (Lake Towhee).
What are the best strategies to fish through these areas. All over the internet fishermen mention fishing through the cabbage and Coontail for panfish. This sounds like a recipe for disaster and a free trip to Tangletown.
The Poconos are full of these types of lake and knowing how to negotiate the weeds will lead to allot more hook-ups.
Advice?

 

[Dave_W]

I tie and fish weedless flies all the time.

The reason you don't hear much about this is that trout fishermen rarely use weedless flies and most of the talk on this forum is trout talk.

We WW anglers tend to use a lot more weedless flies.

The problem is that the flies typically used for bluegills are so small it is tricky to effectively design a weed guard. When targeting bluegills around weeds, I just try to get my nymphs to edges or pockets in between weeds... or just switch to a popper or dry fly and fish over the weeds.

For bass and various toothy critters, there are a variety of weed guard designs that can be tied into a streamer fly and I always have some of these in my boxes. I prefer a mono loop weed guard.

(If you do an advanced search of the forum, you can probably see threads where we have discussed weed guards - please don't refresh old threads, just read 'em.)

 

[Baron]

Okay that sounds doable.

 

[Baron]

Dave I read'em and didn't refresh them. Thanks. I like the Mono loop and it seems to work for the most part. today I went to Mauck Chunck Lake and was slamming medium sized pickerel and a bass in the presence of young lilies. It did catch on the Lilys a couple times but I was able to pull free with the 10lb mono tippet I was using.

 

[Dave_W]

Baron wrote:
Dave I read'em and didn't refresh them. Thanks. I like the Mono loop and it seems to work for the most part. today I went to Mauck Chunck Lake and was slamming medium sized pickerel and a bass in the presence of young lilies. It did catch on the Lilys a couple times but I was able to pull free with the 10lb mono tippet I was using.

Excellent!

Even flies and lures with the best weedless designs will still hang up from time to time (as you know).

Also, don't hesitate to go up on line test. If I'm fishing bass and pickerel around weeds I'd be using line around 14-17lb test for leader.

 

[Baron]

I know that Pickrell and Bess are not especially leader shy. But I’m really there to catch panfish. May I assume that crappy are not leader Shy?
Sure is fun. This is my first year to catch pickerel, trout and bass on the fly. White Wooly Bugger.
Last year I did well on panfish only.

 

[JerryC]

I prefer to fish the edges rather than use weed guard. When I tie flies with weed guards, I use a Gamakatsu Weedless hook that has a looped wire weed guard already on it. Here's another way to go weedless. I supersized my favorite pan fish fly. Since I have the hook I used in smaller sizes, I may have to see if I can go weedless in the pan fish size.

 

[Baron]

Jerry,
I'm new to FF and to this whole approach. Fly fishing from a boat on lakes is also new to me. I'm used to assuming that pads are out of bounds to my skill sets, an empty feeling I plan to beat. I've seen flies like that frog above and also baitfish flies where the hook is turned up. What keeps them staying up? don't they flip over allot?
I have a bunch of those weedless hooks with the wire guards. haven't tried them yet as I don't tie and I'm attempting to FF only (still carrying both fly rod and spinning when aboard).
Yesterday I had allot of issues with wind and it was rewarding but not fun.

Dave,
Is this the type of loop you're describing.

 

[Baron]

this

 

[Dave_W]

I prefer a loop that does not go back and contact the hook point.

Many weedless hooks designed for spin lures have the style shown in your photo above, but with a wire guard. I don't think a mono loop such as the one in your photo will work well.

The photo below shows the style I like tied on one of my streamers: It's a loop that, when the fish bites, is pressed down exposing the barb. When you tie these make sure that the loop is short enough that it does not catch the hook point when depressed. I usually use 50lb test mono.

BTW: This fly is a favorite of mine for bass and pickerel in weeds and around woody debris. It's tied on a plastic worm hook and the dumbbell weight is far back on the curved hook shank. This will cause the fly to swim hook upward and by swimming this way, the fly will also avoid snags as it will crawl over obstacles.

 

[JerryC]

[i]"Jerry,
I'm new to FF and to this whole approach. Fly fishing from a boat on lakes is also new to me. I'm used to assuming that pads are out of bounds to my skill sets, an empty feeling I plan to beat. I've seen flies like that frog above and also baitfish flies where the hook is turned up. What keeps them staying up? don't they flip over allot?
I have a bunch of those weedless hooks with the wire guards. haven't tried them yet as I don't tie and I'm attempting to FF only (still carrying both fly rod and spinning when aboard).
Yesterday I had allot of issues with wind and it was rewarding but not fun."[/i]

Not really, Baron. The weight of the hook is low on this fly. It's glued to the bottom piece of foam and I made some grooves in the bottom piece to hold the shank in place. I have had the pan fish version land hook up, but it usually flips over after a couple of strips.
For bait fish patterns tied on a straight shank hook, like a Clouser Minnow, the weight, dumbbell eyes is tied on the top of the shank which flips the hook over so it rides point up. I don't have a decent picture of a Clouser, but on this crayfish pattern, I have two rattles tied on top of the shank for weight and the hook will ride straight up.
Another way to do it is like Dave's fly above is to tie it on a worm hook which is designed to ride point up. Or on a jig hook like the woolly bugger in the second picture.

Not sure where the pictures are going to show up. When I started fly fishing I carried my spinning rod with me for about two years and finally realized I wasn't really going to learn how to fly fish if I kept bringing it with me. Repeated the process with salt water, since I build my own fly rods, I use single foot spinning guides rather than snake guides on them. I eliminated the spinning rod and just carried the reel and a small box of lures and jigs. After three trips I just left the reel and the lure box home.

 

[Baron]

I wish you Men would exercise some restraint or you'll have me tying before long;-)
Beautiful work. it make sense to me. Ironically I keep the spinning gear to occasionally make sure that there are fish where I'm fishing.
That little mono loop looks interesting.

Most of the few I have purchased have this type of weed guard but they aren't especially the best.

 

[JerryC]

I brought flies before I started tying. I think one of the main driving forces in learning to tie was that there were only certain styles of commercially tied flies available 30 years ago, especially for warm water. I wanted what, we call in fresh water, a pencil popper small enough to use for pan fish. What I ended up doing was using a the bottom of a goose quill for the body, stuffed with foam, tied on a size 4 or 6 Cricket hook. I had feathers and marabou from my trout fly tying classes. Surprisingly, they caught fish.
I still do that today when we go up to Canada. I'll make a couple of casts with my spinning rod to see if there are any smallies in the area we've pulled in to. If I get a hit or hook a bass, I put the spinning rod down an pick up the fly rod. Back then it was a crutch, I knew if I was having a bad day I could put down the fly rod and pick up the spinning rod and catch fish. The hardest part was learning not to put down the fly rod. Here's what one of those goose quill poppers looked like.

 

[Baron]

That is cute. I just commissioned a young man to tie some like DAVE w showed on another forum. Size 16. Mind if I borrow this idea as well? I like the length.
I can’t say if I’ll stick with this or not. It’s my first full year. But so far it’s allot more rewarding than handling worms, minnows and other slummy things. I’m not sure but it is stealthier and more relaxing than tossing big shakers and crankers all day.
I like trout but pickerel and pans are what I really like. LMB and SMB are welcome by-catches.
I grew up on a dairy farm near Doylestown and LMB we’re everywhere in farm ponds along with small to average Gills.
I still need the control aspect of the spinning reel but I eventually hope to gain the confidence to leave it home.
If there are any additional issues you would want my tie guy to know please tell me. Things such as how did you get the goose to hold still while you tied that first one???? :lol: :lol: :hammer: :hammer:

 

[Baron]

Dang it. Now ya got me looking at fly tying gear.

 

[Fredrick]

Been tying up lots of flies for snakeheads

 

[Dave_W]

Baron wrote:
Dang it. Now ya got me looking at fly tying gear.

Go for it!

It's not that hard and you will enjoy having a source of simple flies for bluegills and other fish. You can always buy the more complicated patterns or pay someone to tie them for you.

Fly tying is the best part of fly fishing in my opinion.

 

[Baron]

Great alternative to watching TV in winter.
Look at that Snakehead fly, yikes!