Fishing Pressure?

[PennKev]

tomitrout wrote:

My question is, where does the perception of "increased fishing pressure come from"? Because as often as I see the above argument, I'll also run across a thread bemoaning decreased license sales, lack of youth engagement, lack of diversity, declining interest in the outdoors, etc, etc...

So, where is the extra pressure coming from if it's actually there? Compared to say, the mid-90's wave that followed that movie about that river?

License sales are decreasing, we know that. But is the demographic who contributes to crowding on prime waters decreasing? Doesn't seem that way. If all the opening day clowns quit buying licenses, the PAFBC would freak out over loss of license sales, but spring creek would be as crowded as ever.
The casual anglers are the ones who are dropping out of the sport from what I can see. As much as I hate opening day, it is no where near the circus it was 20 years ago from my experience. Additionally, the number of guys out fishing in the first weeks of the season seem to be way down. If these guys aren't out fishing the first few weeks of the season, who knows if they will buy a license at all during the year?

 

[ryansheehan]

3oh4,
The late fall/winter time flows for tailwaters in western maryland(savage and nb)just match the inflow from the feeder streams. The flows during this time are anything but consistent. These reservoirs get to their winter time levels very quickly and the Army Corp does the best they can to maintain that level.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Jeff That's a great point you made and your spot on with everything you said in my opinion.

 

[Mike]

SteveG,
I believe that your answer is in the historical lower Susquehanna smallmouth bass data for 15 inch and longer individuals. For context, 2005 was the first year that the frequently discussed fingerling die-offs began. See the SMB data in Figure 5, which is available in the link to the data on the PFBC web page. Scroll down to Features on the right hand side and go to the data link near the bottom of the list.

 

[greenghost]

As an older cuck, I feel I should probably weigh in on this one. I agree with many of the above posts. While there ard fewer bait and spin fishermen on our streams, there are more fly anglers who seem to focus on the well publicized streams. These waters do get bottle necked and that increase in pressure may have an affect on trout size. To add to this, I believe that fly fishing these popular streams with special regs has increased pressure year round. I remember when fishing past October, outside of Erie tribs, was a very rare occurance. It used to be most of our trout streams and especially the big name waters were jammed with bait guys the first few weeks of the season, then after Memorial Day, nothing. Now there's constant, year-round pressure on the big name streams. I can certainly see how that MIGHT have an affect on trout behavior and size.

 

[PocketWater]

How many fish commission officers are there today, compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago? I have no idea, but I wonder if there has been any rise in poaching?

 

[Hook_Jaw]

I have never witnessed poaching once in my fishing lifetime but I hear of it often by friends and others I talk with fishing. I also haven't seen a fish commission officer since I was 12 years old but I fish most waters well off the beaten path.

 

[JeffK]

I think the year round pressure does hurt trout populations. Trout may not feed well for a few days after being caught that may put them with fewer fat reserves to tide them over the winter. That said, back in the "good old days" many of the old timers knew where the browns overwintered and just hammered those holes, with plenty of large browns heading out on a stringer. I don't see many bait fishermen at all hitting the winter spots any more and rarely see winter trout being kept either.

I am mixed about the poaching issue. In general I think too many people blame their poor results on poachers and environmental degradation is a bigger threat to our streams. Also, I don't think some kids keeping an illegal fish or two is a real threat. However, I have seen cases where pools have been netted or poisoned and that kind of poaching, although rare, puts a hurting on the stream. Once again, immigrants are usually blamed and often are the problem. But I also see local rednecks with great local knowledge doing the same things with an attitude of disregard for "the state" and all its regulations and consider local trout a kind of local property.

 

[Chaz]

tomitrout wrote:
Was reading thru the thread in the Locations forum about Bald Eagle and it's tangent into discussion of the size of the trouts in Spring Creek now vs say 20yrs ago.

Don't want to hijack that thread further, and the question I have also pops into my head while reading other similar discussions. I see a lot of folks posit that one of the reasons the big fish aren't there like they used to be is because of "fishing pressure." More pressure means more stress on the fishes which correlates to potentially shorter lifespans, hence smaller/younger overall fish population, or for whatever the reasons.

My question is, where does the perception of "increased fishing pressure come from"? Because as often as I see the above argument, I'll also run across a thread bemoaning decreased license sales, lack of youth engagement, lack of diversity, declining interest in the outdoors, etc, etc...

So, where is the extra pressure coming from if it's actually there? Compared to say, the mid-90's wave that followed that movie about that river? Is it that these Special Regs areas become such a focal point to draw the pressure from within the shrinking angling community that other waters now go virtually untouched? Have the local communities around these 'focal points' remained relatively steady while the influx of 'tourist' dollars has increased angling pressure? Is the current angling community that much more dedicated that despite fewer numbers, each of us gets out more, keeping the 'angler days' statistics rather consistent?

Tie the two previous together for discussion, and I know I 'travel' a lot more to go fishing now then I did 20yrs ago. So, maybe I'm part off that added pressure to Spring/LJ/Penn's (along with MT, YNP, Tetons, Smokies..) that wasn't previously there, but then that's less time here at home on the Letort/Breeches/Big Spring.....though you'll also sometimes hear how much more pressure those streams see now compared to when...

Every time a trout is caught increases the probability of incidental mortality, it's part of why I fish streams not more than a couple of times a year, unless it's Pine Creek or some other big stocked stream, but for me it's a short list.

 

[ryansheehan]

I've been thinking about this more and more, does anyone know of any studies that deal with mortality as it relates to size? I could see how bigger fish would be more likely to survive because they are stronger. However I could also see how bigger fish could be played to exhaustion and kept out of the water longer when caught. If mortality rates go up as fish get bigger that could be a big reason in declining fish size in catch and release waters. Just a thought.

 

[crs5942]

I think that fishing pressure seems to be increased (despite decreasing numbers of fisherman) due to at least a few factors.

There has been a significant increase in posting of land and the amount of public access for fishing has decreased. Therefore, fisherman are more concentrated.

Many of the historically good trout streams, no longer have the same numbers of fish as they did 10-20 years ago. This is likely due to many factors including ground water/surface water changes, poaching, etc; however, it does seem to be cyclical. This may be due to fishing pressure/stream reports. Everybody on PA FF hears that the fishing is good at Little J. Everyone hits it hard that year and fish mortality increases. The following year, fishing is not as good.

Just some thoughts