Fishing during rifle seasons

[jifigz]

My thoughts exactly.

I try to steer clear of areas that are probably being hunted in archery season also. I bow hunt, and let me tell you, if you've ever had someone disturb the water you are fishing or let their dog swim in front of you, the feeling is much worse when someone ruins you hunt. Even if you are fishing a Sunday, your presence could be screwing up someone's hunt in the coming week.

Deer seasons, both rifle and archery, are not the time to be taking deep dives in the brush to fish some **** trickle. There are often discussions on this board about pissing off landowners and losing access to posting. Keep this in mind when you walk up to a guy in his tree stand when you are out chasing your 4" gemmies.

What if I am out walking all over the public land in search of squirrels? Does the archery hunter have a right to be pissed at me then? Is it rational for him to be mad at some idiot messing up his archery hunting to bag a few tree rats?

 

[BrookieChaser]

Our fire companies revenues have been increasing since 2020, due to changes in the small games of chance regulations.

The other businesses you mention are doing just fine. The atv traffic and stargazers far outspend what little the camp now contribute to the economy. One of my favorite breakfast places is closing for the first week of deer season. They don’t need the money, as it is jam packed with locals every Tuesday through Saturday morning. Even if the camps wanted to eat there, they wouldn’t get a table.

Only 11 percent of the regions economy here is supported by tourism.

Our fire companies have done the same with the raffles. But the old deer season money on top of those raffles would help their budgets.

We don't have the atv infrastructure. The state grounds are closed to atv traffic. I'm honestly glad about that.

It seems more camps are being used in archery opener and early muzzleloader season which has helped the stores and restaurants.

I agree on the "adapt and overcome" approach, but I've not seen one regulation change, like the deer opener, uproot a standard so quickly.

 

[Swattie87]

On public land, everyone has the right to be there and use it, for legal purposes obviously. Both hunting and fishing are legal activities (at certain times of the year) on the common forms of public land found in PA…SF/SGL/SP/NF. (Yes, there are some individual sections where you cannot hunt or fish, but those are local rules applicable to just that specific area. And usually for some safety based reason. I’m talking generally speaking.)

But just because you can doesn’t mean you should. It wouldn’t be cool for someone to decide to do a kayak paddle for instance on the Opening Day of Trout on a STW on public land. Though legal, probably not the “right” thing to do in consideration of the day and other people. Probably a better day to go for a paddle than that.

Everyone has to answer to their own moral compass in the end. But I try to put myself in the shoes of the rifle hunter in the scenario we’re discussing here. For archery, the chances of bumping in to someone is so low that I don’t worry about it. If it happens, like the one time I described above, I apologize and move on. For rifle, I find the likelihood of running into hunters high enough that I just choose to be respectful and take a couple weeks off. Doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. Or if you choose to fish in areas open to hunting in rifle you’re right or wrong. Like the archery hunter said “It’s public land, we gotta share it.” But part of that IMO as an angler is being aware of the various hunting seasons while fishing on public land, and within reason, be respectful toward others accessing the public land. And in the case of rifle, realizing their window to pursue their hobby each year, is much shorter than it is for anglers.

 

[Cznymph]

Our fire companies have done the same with the raffles. But the old deer season money on top of those raffles would help their budgets.

We don't have the atv infrastructure. The state grounds are closed to atv traffic. I'm honestly glad about that.

It seems more camps are being used in archery opener and early muzzleloader season which has helped the stores and restaurants.

I agree on the "adapt and overcome" approach, but I've not seen one regulation change, like the deer opener, uproot a standard so quickly.

Our fire companies ended the breakfasts, both deer season and at other times of the years because of lack of help.

Local business learned that they can no longer rely on the two weeks of deer season to make or break their season. It’s not 1980 anymore, and businesses now need to rely on the local population, as well as all forms of tourism. This change had occurred well before the move to a Saturday opener. The deer camp crowd we got in 2015, is only a fraction of what it was in 1985. People don’t have the time, desire or motivation to travel to NC PA to hunt deer, when the best deer hunting in the state is much closer to home.

Take the stargazers at cherry springs. Most of these folks travel from a major metro area. They need at least one night of accommodation, plus the days meals and most are looking for an activity the daylight hours. All of this costs money. There can been well over 1000 people at Cherry Springs on any given night.

Deer camps on the other hand, may purchase a few cases of beer, or the forgotten orange hat. Maybe a big item purchase in an emergency, like a fridge or water heater. Even then there isn’t many places to buy those kinds of things here. Those few small purchases aren’t doing much in the grand scheme of thing.

During Covid, many of the camps filled up, and the people swore up and down that they always purchased everything they ever needed at camp downstate. There was no need for them them to visit our local businesses they said. I spend about twenty minutes each evening sitting along the main road waiting for my kids to get off the bus. I see all kinds of things being hauled to camps, coolers, firewood, cases of beer. All things that could be bought (and should be in the case of firewood) here if they really wanted.

That being said, many of the traditional deer camps, I drive by 30 or so every single day, have turned into second homes used mostly on Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor Day.

 

[PennKev]

What if I am out walking all over the public land in search of squirrels? Does the archery hunter have a right to be pissed at me then? Is it rational for him to be mad at some idiot messing up his archery hunting to bag a few tree rats?

Most archery hunters would be upset but not angry towards the squirrel hunter as the conflict is created by the way the PAGC schedules the seasons, and not so much by one hunters decision to prioritize their sport. I think most hunters realize that small game hunters can only shoot "tree rats" during a limited period that happens to overlap the archery deer season.

But that kinda highlights why it's important to give hunters their seasons. Various game is in season during overlapping and adjacent periods. Hunters already have to share the woods with other hunters for small game, deer, fall turkey, bear, etc. Should anglers, dog walkers, bird watchers, etc, just tromp through the woods and not give a rip that they are adding to the human activity in the woods?

All I'm saying is tread lightly and take into consideration the fact that someone is out there enjoying their sport the same as you do in the peak spring season. Don't inadvertently be the guy who throws sticks in the water for his dog to retrieve. It's as simple as taking a moment to think about where you plan on fishing.

 

[jifigz]

Most archery hunters would be upset but not angry towards the squirrel hunter as the conflict is created by the way the PAGC schedules the seasons, and not so much by one hunters decision to prioritize their sport. I think most hunters realize that small game hunters can only shoot "tree rats" during a limited period that happens to overlap the archery deer season.

But that kinda highlights why it's important to give hunters their seasons. Various game is in season during overlapping and adjacent periods. Hunters already have to share the woods with other hunters for small game, deer, fall turkey, bear, etc. Should anglers, dog walkers, bird watchers, etc, just tromp through the woods and not give a rip that they are adding to the human activity in the woods?

All I'm saying is tread lightly and take into consideration the fact that someone is out there enjoying their sport the same as you do in the peak spring season. Don't inadvertently be the guy who throws sticks in the water for his dog to retrieve. It's as simple as taking a moment to think about where you plan on fishing.

I was just playing devil's advocate.

We do not have a problem with over-utilization of public lands during our hunting seasons. That is my opinion, at least.

 

[Forestfishin]

On public land, everyone has the right to be there and use it, for legal purposes obviously. Both hunting and fishing are legal activities (at certain times of the year) on the common forms of public land found in PA…SF/SGL/SP/NF. (Yes, there are some individual sections where you cannot hunt or fish, but those are local rules applicable to just that specific area. And usually for some safety based reason. I’m talking generally speaking.)

But just because you can doesn’t mean you should. It wouldn’t be cool for someone to decide to do a kayak paddle for instance on the Opening Day of Trout on a STW on public land. Though legal, probably not the “right” thing to do in consideration of the day and other people. Probably a better day to go for a paddle than that.

Everyone has to answer to their own moral compass in the end. But I try to put myself in the shoes of the rifle hunter in the scenario we’re discussing here. For archery, the chances of bumping in to someone is so low that I don’t worry about it. If it happens, like the one time I described above, I apologize and move on. For rifle, I find the likelihood of running into hunters high enough that I just choose to be respectful and take a couple weeks off. Doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. Or if you choose to fish in areas open to hunting in rifle you’re right or wrong. Like the archery hunter said “It’s public land, we gotta share it.” But part of that IMO as an angler is being aware of the various hunting seasons while fishing on public land, and within reason, be respectful toward others accessing the public land. And in the case of rifle, realizing their window to pursue their hobby each year, is much shorter than it is for anglers.

Agree. Reason I posed the question initially was I found myself out Sunday and we ran into a bear hunter in the parking lot which is why we moved on to a few other streams that were outside of areas open to hunting. For whatever reason I was thinking only about the two Sundays in deer season. Was curious what people’s thoughts were on the subject since there are probably a lot of hunters here but certainly don’t have a problem staying out of the woods for a few weeks.

And though I’ve only missed one Thanksgiving weekend at camp since 2003 I’ve only went once on opening trout weekend and that will never happen again. Think it was 2004 or 5. That’s probably why I’ve relegated this coming weekend to musky and pike the last few years. I picture the woods filled with all those fisherman except with guns.

And I’d bet money that at least one kayak or canoe will be floating down Tionesta creek next trout opener.

 

[hooker-of-men]

I was just playing devil's advocate.

We do not have a problem with over-utilization of public lands during our hunting seasons. That is my opinion, at least.

Squirrel hunting is the only hunting I've ever enjoyed, since it's just going for a hike with a gun. Pretty nice.

Unfortunately, at the end of the day all you have is a couple squirrels that will be gone in one meal, so I haven't been motivated to do it in years.

 

[JeremyW]

I'm down in VA, just fish in the national park during hunting season, because it's illegal to hunt there.

 

[jifigz]

Squirrel hunting is the only hunting I've ever enjoyed, since it's just going for a hike with a gun. Pretty nice.

Unfortunately, at the end of the day all you have is a couple squirrels that will be gone in one meal...

And a little less stress, an enjoyable experience, some exercise, maybe some gratitude for the little things in life, some tying materials, etc...

 

[TimMurphy]

Ask your fire companies, local restaurants/bars and general stores if the opening weekend switch has helped or hurt their bottom line. That's mainly where I hear the complaints.
I have more sporting goods "stores" in my rural area too, but I don't consider that an economic indicator of deer camp traffic. I see it as more of an indicator of year-round population growth. All of the sporting goods stores in my area are side businesses with limited hours, the owners all work elsewhere. Also the new (<5 yrs) sporting goods stores are owned by transplants to the area. They'll go out of business eventually, they're cyclical it seems. The only ones that work are in the hardware stores.

I didn't care either way when they proposed moving the opening day to Saturday. I sure hate it now.

Dear BrookieChaser,

I don't hunt so maybe I shouldn't respond, but Monday after Thanksgiving deer rifle season didn't start in PA until 1963. There are people on this board that didn't hunt on Mondays when they were younger.

My question is, how did the PA rural economies survive before people bought deer camps?

PA is tradition bound even when it isn't exactly traditional, which seem strange to me, as a native.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Swattie87]

From a practical perspective, deer rifle in PA is the only season you really need to think about IMO. This isn’t to say it’s more important than other game seasons (it is though), it’s just a numbers thing. Anything else there’s so little usage that’s it’s not worth worrying about and missing out on your fishing. Thinking back, it’s like 1:100 outings I’ve run into someone (not including deer rifle). I run into hikers, yakkers, herons, or worse, other spinscaters far more often than hunters in the Fall (not including deer rifle).