Fishing Class A streams vs stream SECTIONS now

[Mike]

I am hoping this is helpful. If not, don't shoot the messenger. The regulation is on p 10 of the 2019 Pa Fishing Summary Booklet. It refers to stream SECTIONS, not streams when it comes to stocked trout sections that are also Class A, so be careful to pay attention to where it says streams and where it says stream sections.

(Sections are management units and are the way that all flowing waters have been designated and managed in Pa since 1982.)

See page 10 of the 2019 Pa Fishing Summary Booklet either in print or on-line on the PFBC web site. Specifically, go to p 10, 3rd column, immediately beneath the Commonwealth Inland Waters table for the explanation regarding fishing Class A's from the day after Labor Day until the opening day of trout season the following year.

 

[afishinado]

Mike wrote:
I am hoping this is helpful. If not, don't shoot the messenger. The regulation is on p 10 of the 2019 Pa Fishing Summary Booklet. It refers to stream SECTIONS, not streams when it comes to stocked trout sections that are also Class A, so be careful to pay attention to where it says streams and where it says stream sections.

(Sections are management units and are the way that all flowing waters have been designated and managed in Pa since 1982.)

See page 10 of the 2019 Pa Fishing Summary Booklet either in print or on-line on the PFBC web site. Specifically, go to p 10, 3rd column, immediately beneath the Commonwealth Inland Waters table for the explanation regarding fishing Class A's from the day after Labor Day until the opening day of trout season the following year.

From Page 10 / 3rd column of the PFBC Summary Book >

NOTE: It is legal to fish for trout in Class A trout streams year-round,with no harvest beginning the day after Labor Day through the opening day of trout season the following year. The exception is those stream sections designated as both Class A Wild Trout Streams and Stocked Trout Waters. These stream sections are closed to fishing from March 1 until 8 a.m. on the opening day of trout season

Link to Source > https://pfbc.pa.gov/fishpub/summaryad/2019summaryComplete.pdf

This is a partial explanation (which is progress on the issue for the FBC).

One can certainly anticipate the follow-up question from anglers > Is C&R fishing legal during the period on the remaining wild trout streams not classified as Class A (Class B > D)?

 

[Bamboozle]

afishinado wrote:

One can certainly anticipate the follow-up question from anglers > Is C&R fishing legal during the period on the remaining wild trout streams not classified as Class A (Class B > D)?

We're still talking about this? ;-)

 

[Dave_W]

afishinado wrote:
This is a partial explanation (which is progress on the issue for the FBC).

Agree - this verbiage is a modest improvement.

 

[fly_flinger]

So you can fish anywhere else in the stream other than the stocked sections right?

A group of us had a debate about this very issue on Saturday. The stream in question is Big Fishing Creek in Clinton Cty. Can you fish anywhere on the stream right now, other than the stocked section?

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

One can certainly anticipate the follow-up question from anglers > Is C&R fishing legal during the period on the remaining wild trout streams not classified as Class A (Class B > D)?

That's a very good question.

I hope that we'll get an answer to it.

 

[TYoung]

A group of us had a debate about this very issue on Saturday. The stream in question is Big Fishing Creek in Clinton Cty. Can you fish anywhere on the stream right now, other than the stocked section?

On Fishing Creek, the stocked section ends at where Elk Creek enters Fishing Creek. Anywhere above that can be fished all year long.

 

[Solitariolupo]

fly_flinger wrote:
So you can fish anywhere else in the stream other than the stocked sections right?

A group of us had a debate about this very issue on Saturday. The stream in question is Big Fishing Creek in Clinton Cty. Can you fish anywhere on the stream right now, other than the stocked section?

100 yards away from any sign that says approved trout waters. The beginning to the end of signs, no fishing of the signs.

 

[Bamboozle]

Excluding Special Regulation Waters, the reality with fishing for trout this time of year is all in the definition of what Stocked Trout Waters (as they are now called) is and whether you plan to harvest.

Simplified, if it ain’t stocked, it ain’t subject to the season closures as long as you don’t harvest.

But, what is considered NON-Stocked Trout Waters is all in the listings in the Summary Booklet, BY COUNTY, not what sections are stocked or not. For example, Fishing Creek is stocked in Sections 13 & 14 in Clinton County from the confluence of Cedar Run to Country Club Road.

HOWEVER in the Summary, the Stocked Trout Waters boundaries for Fishing Creek are defined as from the confluence of Cedar Run to the mouth. That means in Clinton County, only the sections above Cedar Run are open to fishing with NO harvest UNLESS the sections above were in a different county where they ARE listed.

That EXCLUDES anything downstream of Country Club Road to the mouth regardless of how far away it is from the last Approved Trout Waters sign.

In regards to Class B-D streams or sections, they are the same as any other un-stocked, NON-Stocked Trout Waters stream this time of year. If the stream is not listed by name or section in the Summary as Stocked Trout Waters IN THE COUNTY where you plan to fish, have at it with NO harvest anywhere in that county.

If a section of the Class B-D is Stocked Trout Waters, but that stream is listed BY SECTION in the Summary for that county, upstream sections in that county are open with no harvest. If that same creek named in County A has a section in County B where it isn’t listed as Stocked Trout Water, it too is open to no-harvest fishing.

The only thing that has really changed in the last 5 years is now the PFBC in the name of “simplification” has allowed no-harvest trout fishing during the Closed Period in un-stocked Class A sections in streams that are listed BY NAME as Stocked Trout Waters in the county where the section is. Previously, even those Class A sections were closed if that stream was listed BY NAME, in that county in the Summary.

For example, the Little Lehigh Creek is listed by name as Stocked Trout Waters in Lehigh County. Among other sections, Section 3 is Class A. Previously, even that section was closed to no-harvest trout during this time period because the entire stream is listed. Now, even that section is open to no-harvest fishing although I’ll bet you buck if you fish there, someone will challenge you because they don’t know how it all works.

Conversely, Pohopoco Creek above Beltzville is open not just because it is mostly Class A, it’s because that portion of the creek is in Monroe County where ISN’T listed as Stocked Trout Waters.

Still confusing if you ask me… ;-)

 

[laszlo]

Yep, clear as mud

 

[Millsertime]

Bamboozle wrote:


We're still talking about this? ;-)

Yes, and we will continue to for years to come until the Fish Commission actually clears up all grey areas.....Sad but true.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have asked for YEARS why they don't start with defining ALL Stocked Trout Waters by section instead of name.

That in itself would at least clear-up half of the confusion.

 

[PennKev]

Can anyone point out where in the regulations it is specified that a "stocked trout water" ends at a county line? I have been unable to find anything official that even suggests that a "down stream area" in a separate county is open to fishing if it is not listed as a stocked water in the downstream county itself. I'm not trying to be ****, but this reminds me of how some hunters say that if a posted sign is not signed by the landowner it is invalid. Sort of an urban legend legal loop-hole.

Kev

 

[Swattie87]

Kev - It used to say “in the county of the STW designation” or something like that. I think that’s what guys are referring to, and that was my latest recollection too. If the stream was listed as STW in one county, but not another, the interpretation being propagated was it was ok to fish it in the non listed county.

The STW regulation reads differently now, you are right...”the term stocked trout waters includes the entire stream from headwaters to mouth.”

Subtle, but important change. Make sure to check every county the stream runs through now, and be guided accordingly, March fishing fans. Based on the above, it would now appear that if a stream is listed as a STW ANYWHERE, it is closed to fishing for its length from 3/1 until opening day, unless there’s a separately designated specials refs section.

Put the rods away for a few more weeks boys. Under this new interpretation the Allegheny River (stocked in Potter County) is closed to all fishing all the way to its confluence in Pittsburgh! Though clearly not the intent, that’s the way it reads!

 

[PennKev]

Swattie87 wrote:
Put the rods away for a few more weeks boys. Under this new interpretation the Allegheny River (stocked in Potter County) is closed to all fishing all the way to its confluence in Pittsburgh! Though clearly not the intent, that’s the way it reads!

Yeah, I've pointed that out in past threads. I don't actually think closing entire, expansive waterways is the intent either. However, I do think this illustrates the shortcomings of the way regulations are written. No one really thinks the entire Allegheny should be currently closed, no one is enforcing it in that way, and I don't think that any thought was given to the implication that stocking it in one relatively small stretch would affect the regs in distant reaches that no one thinks of as trout waters.

In fact, I think the trout regulations in general are written without too much thought as to how they effect fishing outside of spring time and outside of the waters stocked by the PAFBC. The recent clarifications on Class A's being an exception.

 

[Bamboozle]

Approved Trout Water or Stocked Trout Waters are listed and defined by county and always have been.

Where a stream crosses county lines, if they want the entire stream closed, they will also list it in the adjoining county or counties. If it isn't listed, it IS open.

My example of the Pohopoco Creek is that exact situation. It is NOT Stocked Trout Waters in Monroe County so it is open.

Saucon Creek is another, stocked & closed in Northampton County, open in Lehigh.

The Allegheny River is only closed in the county where it is listed.

Call Law Enforcement for the county in question if you want to verify.

 

[Swattie87]

^IF that’s the way it’s to be interpreted/enforced (and I think you’re likely right), why not just write it to say that? I think that’s the underlying point with all these discussions.

It kinda used to say that, but to Kev’s point, it doesn’t now. Now the reg says STW means headwaters to mouth. It doesn’t say anything about county lines. Why? What was the intent there? Simple oversight?

A judge interpreting that law I’m sure would do so very literally based on how it’s written. (I doubt you’d be ticketed for fishing the Allegheny in Allegheny County, or the Po in Monroe, but you get the point.)

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:


From Page 10 / 3rd column of the PFBC Summary Book >

NOTE: It is legal to fish for trout in Class A trout streams year-round,with no harvest beginning the day after Labor Day through the opening day of trout season the following year.

Link to Source > https://pfbc.pa.gov/fishpub/summaryad/2019summaryComplete.pdf

This is a partial explanation (which is progress on the issue for the FBC).

One can certainly anticipate the follow-up question from anglers > Is C&R fishing legal during the period on the remaining wild trout streams not classified as Class A (Class B > D)?

Why do you all think this specifies only Class A streams as being open, rather than a much more general, inclusive reference to all streams not on the stocking list?

 

[fly_flinger]

Bamboozle wrote:

Call Law Enforcement for the county in question if you want to verify.

We have a call into the local WCO to ask specifically about BFC in Clinton County. Whenever they get back to us, I'll let you all know what they say.

 

[CLSports]

One thing you should know for sure, fly flinger, is that you cannot fish for musky in a body of water that is stocked with trout during that closure period.