Erie Tribs

[joebamboo]

Isn't interesting that we warn not to fish over spawning trout and watch out for the redds, but have no problem fishing/snagging steelhead on their way to spawn?

 

[gunpowderglass]

Isn't interesting that we warn not to fish over spawning trout and watch out for the redds, but have no problem fishing/snagging steelhead on their way to spawn?

I think this primarily has to do with the fact that there is very little successful natural reproduction in the steelhead alley fisheries.

There are certainly some places it is happening. Were those places widely known, I think almost everyone would agree those fish should be left alone.

 

[Old Town]

According to the Pa fish commission biologist the only Pa stream with very limited natural reproduction of steelhead was Crooked creek. That is the ones open to fishing. Also it usually gets too warm to support trout fry in the summer. So for as far as catching fish on reds it makes no difference for future steelhead runs.

 

[esocidae]

There are tribs to the main Lake Erie tribs that have successful natural reproduction every year. They are designated as cold water fisheries and I’ve never seen them much above 65 or 66 F even on hot summer days. I won’t name names. My parents had a place on Elk from 1988 to 2006. No one really believed me until I became a Fisheries biologist and showed pics of hundreds of wild bows in the 3-4” range in large deep plunge pools dropping off from the plateau (go looking for them in August if you’d like to observe, water is gin clear then). You can see them up until the first high water of fall, when most head to the lake. Some hang around and become residents. ( Not talking about the stocked smolts in early spring). Stocked browns hold over in Elk and Crooked (the deepest holes) and spawn in their tribs as well.

 

[troutbert]

There are tribs to the main Lake Erie tribs that have successful natural reproduction every year. They are designated as cold water fisheries and I’ve never seen them much above 65 or 66 F even on hot summer days. I won’t name names. My parents had a place on Elk from 1988 to 2006. No one really believed me until I became a Fisheries biologist and showed pics of hundreds of wild bows in the 3-4” range in large deep plunge pools dropping off from the plateau (go looking for them in August if you’d like to observe, water is gin clear then). You can see them up until the first high water of fall, when most head to the lake. Some hang around and become residents. ( Not talking about the stocked smolts in early spring). Stocked browns hold over in Elk and Crooked (the deepest holes) and spawn in their tribs as well.

I read PFBC reports about natural reproduction in small tributaries to the tributaries that most people fish and know about many years ago, in the 1990s.

 

[Old Town]

My question would be if there is good brown trout reproduction why are we not getting good runs of browns in Pa?
It took about 20 years after steelhead smolt were stocked that the Fish Commission even stocked brown smolt. Back prior to smolt stocking there was written information on catching some steelhead on the opening day of Pa trout. I am not sure when it started but it was 20 plus years thus creating the term Steelhead Alley.. These were regular domestic type trout stocked in the spring and ran out into the lake. Also I have worked with the PFBC and when hatcheries have too many fingerlings they just stock them wherever so that could explain the fish you saw. There are reports from 30 plus years ago that the only stream with natural reproduction was Crooked creek. Things can change but with the climate conditions changing it is highly unlikely any trout would survive the high water temperatures of the Pa tribs. Last year in early April you could not hardly find a steelhead in the streams. Yes there can be exceptions but it appears with the earths warming it will get worse not better.

 

[esocidae]

My question would be if there is good brown trout reproduction why are we not getting good runs of browns in Pa?
It took about 20 years after steelhead smolt were stocked that the Fish Commission even stocked brown smolt. Back prior to smolt stocking there was written information on catching some steelhead on the opening day of Pa trout. I am not sure when it started but it was 20 plus years thus creating the term Steelhead Alley.. These were regular domestic type trout stocked in the spring and ran out into the lake. Also I have worked with the PFBC and when hatcheries have too many fingerlings they just stock them wherever so that could explain the fish you saw. There are reports from 30 plus years ago that the only stream with natural reproduction was Crooked creek. Things can change but with the climate conditions changing it is highly unlikely any trout would survive the high water temperatures of the Pa tribs. Last year in early April you could not hardly find a steelhead in the streams. Yes there can be exceptions but it appears with the earths warming it will get worse not better.

Way over your head Old Town from Cumberland county. You should check out the Fisherie.com forums. That’s the place for weekend warriors like you.

By the way. Go check the pfbc website for streams up for consideration to join Pa’s wild trout stream list. Look at Erie county’s streams that were surveyed this year. Then get yourself a Pennsylvania Delorme atlas and gazetteer and look for the listed streams.

I don’t post to strike up arguments; I post to educate and discuss with like minded fisheries professionals whom are far less interested in catching steelhead and would rather study them. I only post facts from my own life experiences.

This is why I rarely post. Every arm-chair quarterback is an expert.



Mansfield University of Pennsylvania Fisheries ‘08

University of Alaska Anchorage Fisheries ‘10

 

[Old Town]

I have lived in Girard for the month of October for over 20 years and am a licensed guide that has put plenty of time on the water. I see and hear a lot of BS. Have you ever been on Brandy Run? Also Elk Creek park? Those are the two places I see on the list you refer to. Trout run and Godfrey are nursery waters so I am aware of there status of no fishing permitted. Also my home stream produced 2 wild browns in the section they shocked last year and is on the wild brown trout list. I am not a arm chair whatever. I put 200 plus days a year on the water for over 30 years.

 

[TerrellBFly]

Caught this guy in Oct last year in an Erie Trib, on a #16 pheasant tail. I'm not gonna say where, but natural reproduction does happen, even if the "authorities" don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[esocidae]

I caught 32 wild browns ranging from 4-16” and two wild bows 8-10” the first time I fished Brandy run 20 years ago. In July. Upstream from the Usgs gauge. It’s private and posted now. The streams I refer to are wild bows just like the pic TerrellBFly posted.

Go fish Raccoon in the summer. You won’t be catching chubs. Lol.

I’ve caught adult steelhead in Elk every
month of the year with the exception being July; but I’ve caught a few during that month in Elk’s tribs.

I’ve seen adult steelhead stuck in large holes in small tribs over the summer and through September and October until a good rain comes.

Look at the streams up for consideration to join Pa’s wild trout list in Erie county. Not the class A list. The majority were previously never surveyed by the pfbc until earlier this year, as a part of Pa’s quest to find every stream in the state with natural reproduction of trout. The sampling dates are listed.

The fish and boat commission has known about Brandy run since 1996. The browns there are not anadromous and came to be there from the regular trout stocking on Elk. It also should be noted that Pa’s stock of brown trout are from all over Europe, with genetics ranging from the small stream dwelling Von Behr browns from Germany that first arrived in Pa in 1883 to the lake dwelling Loch Leven browns that arrived here shortly after.

What we refer to as steelhead in Pa are not all steelhead. Many are just plain old rainbows. The colorations are quite varied. This is why you find wild bows that stay on as residents in the small tribs.

I’ve fished plain old rainbow trout streams that dump right into Bristol Bay in Alaska and they are not steelhead and not anadromous.

The pink salmon runs in Erie are not supported by stocking…

The last Chinook salmon I caught in Elk was in October 2004. It was 8 inches long and their stocking program had ceased in the 1997. So I’m assuming it was wild.

Next time you see Jim at Folly’s, tell him Jeremy the fish guy from West Virginia says hello. If you knew Clyde that used to work at the shop very well, he’d tell you with a sly grin about the wild bows. And old hillbilly Larry Harmon, the original owner of Folly’s, would tell you about those “side streams” as he called them as he’d try to sell you a Winston fly rod. Those were the good old days of my youth.

Take Jim’s hiking trail to its end next summer and see what you find.

The point is, in my 36 years on Elk and other tribs, I never saw people in these places except for a few during high waters in the spring. I’ve gotten more than intimate with the region and have explored and put in many many miles to reach locations. It was nothing for me to walk 5 miles one way on Elk before posted signs became a common sight.

I’ve lived for wild trout since I was very young. I stand by my word as a scientist and would never lie or exaggerate about facts or data. I stand to gain nothing from it.

 

[albatross]

Thread on wild steelhead reproduction in PA from last year...

Thread 'PA Steelhead Natural Reproduction'

Dec 4, 2023

I was stunned the past Saturday 02Dec2023 to have caught or witnessed three juvenile rainbows 3-5 inches in length on a PA trib to Lake Erie East of the City. I have previously been on stream after "smolts" were stocked, later in the Spring in my past experience. These didn't seem to be freshly stocked smolts from the hatchery. I'm not surprised there is some natural reproduction, but I'm stunned to have caught/seen 3 in one day.

• albatross
• Replies: 23
• Forum: Paflyfish General Forum

• 

 

[TerrellBFly]

My question is are these even rainbow smolts? That fork in the tail is the only reason why I ask.... Could these be coho?? I know rainbows have a minor fork in the tail, however, the images I am seeing have a "pronounced" fork. Any thoughts??

 

[esocidae]

My question is are these even rainbow smolts? That fork in the tail is the only reason why I ask.... Could these be coho?? I know rainbows have a minor fork in the tail, however, the images I am seeing have a "pronounced" fork. Any thoughts??

The larger fish in the top pic absolutely looks like a Coho to me. The parr marks and the light pink stripe on the lateral line are unique and the forked tail is quite deep. The only real way to tell would be by using a dichotomous key stream side. And then only if you had a small container to temporarily place one in. That or take a fin clip and give it to a geneticist.

 

[CRB]

The larger fish in the top pic absolutely looks like a Coho to me. The parr marks and the light pink stripe on the lateral line are unique and the forked tail is quite deep. The only real way to tell would be by using a dichotomous key stream side. And then only if you had a small container to temporarily place one in. That or take a fin clip and give it to a geneticist.

I believe your right lifetime Erie county resident There is wild fish. Some of the stories I've heard from the early 50-70's are wonderful. The fish and fishing ebb and flow with the changes the lake has suffered.

 

[albatross]

10Nov2024 East-side PA trib.

 

[dano]

If you're local, and fished here long enough, you know that there are pockets of natural reproduction in Erie County. We used to catch the occasional wild fingerling brown trout in upper 20-mile creek NY.
But, if you look at the Lake Erie watershed as a whole, reproduction is minor and hardly contributes to the returning adult population. Slow growth rate, ( food source, competition ,etc.) especially compared to its hatchery raised cousins, leave these fingerlings at a disadvantage. Then, nearing the smoltification process, there is the long journey down through the warmer main tribs and into the lake where the fittest survive. I've heard that only 1 in 10 of stocked steelhead fingerlings survive and these fish get the luxury of spending a year in the hatchery.

 

[dano]

Let me also add that these young fish are known to leave one trib, swim along the lakeshore and enter another trib. We see this mostly with the brown trout fingerlings.
And many of the salmon we catch are products of Catt Cr.
Coho, Chinook and Pinks have been successfully spawning on the Rez and a bit above Zoar Valley.