Dsr vs homewaters (or the senator vs the beav)

[foxtrapper1972]

In the 70's and 80's I trapped fox on 40-60 farms every year. I would start making my rounds getting permission in the late summer. I had good relationships with many landowners. Many farms I went to for years. Occasionally I would find a new farm or the land changed hands. The NO TRESPASSING signs were up. A few times I would go to ask permission and be told in an angry tone. "CAN"T YOU READ THE SIGNS".
In PA you can legally enter any land that is not posted or fenced and hunt or fish. In that case I ask if convenient but not always. If told to leave by landowner you must go. Beyond that there are numerous possibilities for signage that I've seen but just putting up NO TRESPASSING signs is the usual way to convey KEEP OUT or DON'T EVEN ASK... (I ask anyway and accept the consequences and am occasionally surprised to gain access).

 

[PALongbow]

Pcray -

Back in the day we asked landowners to hunt and fish. Today our society has the entitlement mindset that feels your property is their property. Technically I shouldn't have to post any signs. Ask permission or stay the heck off my property! There are no grey areas here...

Ron

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Actually Longbow, back in the day there were MANY hundreds of acres of land and streams etc all over the whole state that were never posted and we roamed freely. Then came the age of "Igot mine and screw you" and also land being leased for big bucks. THAT is when things changed.

 

[RLeep2]

>>"I can" isn't the same as "I should.">>

Exactly..

>>But if it's navigable, you don't own the streambed. YOU ARE NOT THE LANDOWNER. And there's no ethical requirement for me to ask you before entering land that is owned by the public. That's utterly ridiculous.>>

In my view, a portion of ethical behavior is indistinguishable from what we call "common courtesy". Let's say I am fishing a navigable stream and come to a section where somebody's yard runs right down to the stream's edge and occupies, say, 150 feet of streamfront. They are having an outdoor BBQ or some such with a couple dozen guests. To me, common courtesy as well as ethics dictate that I ask them if it is OK if I fish on through the section along their yard, even though it is fully legal for me to do so whether I ask them or not. If they say no, I nod, move along and I don't resume fishing until I am no longer an uninvited part of their day. Compared to legal AND courteous together, legal on its own is significantly over rated IMO.

And besides, if I am courteous, I not only reflect well on our sport, there is also a chance that they will offer me a piece of chicken.

It would be a better world, IMO, if more people acted based on "should" rather than "can".

 

[PALongbow]

foxtrapper1972 - Land ownership/management is changing for various different reasons so you either purchase land, come to terms with posted property or find some place other to hunt or fish with open access. The days of traversing everyone's property freely is gone. It's the world we live in now.


Ron

 

[PALongbow]

RLeep2 - Yes both courtesy and common sense prevails most of the time. Knowing the law and stream status is another issue in itself. For some reason people just assume all streams are accessible and that is far from the truth.

Ron

 

[FarmerDave]

Pat and fox, I agree that a sign that just says "No Trespassing" and nothing else does tend to convey "Keep Out." But if you do have permission, then it isn't trespassing.

What's it hurt to ask?

I do have a few "no trespassing" signs scattered around the farm because I have had problems with people hunting here without permission. They may actually say "No Hunting or Trespassing" but I think that is followed by without permission of ... and I do not sign them. Some might just say "No trespassing" I can't remember.

Some might say not signing conveys "don't bother asking." Ehhh. I'll admit I didn't sign it as a way of discourage people asking, but basically I'm conveying that if you don't have the balls to ask, then don't hunt there.

I hate signs and resisted putting them up for several years. Even though everyone (that I caught) knew that written permission was needed in Ohio regardless of signage, very few would ask. Heck, I even caught a ODNR officer once hunting on my farm (and driving on my fields) without permission.

The signs helped.

Mostly I just want to know who is there because we live there. Is that too much to ask?

Foxtrapper. Would it be OK if I had a BBQ in your back yard? You would be welcome to trap on my farm ... if you asked. ;-)

What's funny is a couple people asked to hunt raccoon on my farm and then didn't show up after I granted permission.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Sure. And you can even use my indoor restroom....(instead of my deck).

By the way, technically you are trespassing to even enter posted property to ask.

 

[FarmerDave]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:

By the way, technically you are trespassing to even enter posted property to ask.

Not necessarily. Going to the front door to ring the doorbell is normally not considered trespassing unless there is signage against that. I can't imagine any law enforcement arresting you for that, and even if you got arrested by Deputy Richard Cranium, no judge would follow through.

So, if you see signs around the farm/property, you are probably OK to go to the front door. A sign on the front door, or in front yard? Probably not advisable. Besides, how hard would it be to look up someone's phone number these days? Not asking is mostly just a lazy excuse. It just isn't worth your effort.

I do have signs in my front yard because of my dangerous lap dog, but other than that...

Plan was to move the signs to the picket fence once I stained it, but now that it is stained I haven't gotten around to moving the signs yet. The official reason is I plan to do a second coat in the Spring, but I've grown to like them there. Keeps the Bible thumpers away from the front door. ;-)

 

[FarmerDave]

I used to occasionally drive past a farm that had a sign that basically said.

"Don't help?
Don't ask."

That might be paraphrasing, but I remember it being short and sweet.

 

[JackM]

FarmerDave wrote:
I used to occasionally drive past a farm that had a sign that basically said.

"Don't help?
Don't ask."

That might be paraphrasing, but I remember it being short and sweet.

I would have to at least knock to ask what they want help with so I can know whether to ask.

 

[FarmerDave]

Hmmm.

Quite a conundrum. ;-)

BTW, the place was a wreck. Clearing a path to the front door would be considered help by most of us, but probably not him.

But I did like his sign, and he clearly needed help.