Dry fly simple question

[psychobeagle12]

Ok, I know this is probably a very poor question to ask of experienced tying hands, but I have an issue. I am fine at tying nymphs. I can consistently catch fish on the nymphs I tie, be it hare's ear, pheasant tail, green weenies, and a bunch of others. I cannot to save my life tie a dry fly. They usually come out looking fine, but they always turn on their side in the water! I have never tied a dry that I caught a fish on to date (except foam chernobyl ants / beetles) and cannot figure out why all of my dries flip on the side. I want to tie a few mayflies (sulphurs, BWOs, etc.) but cannot seem to get them to float correctly! Any advice? If I try to tie any dries I will submit a completed picture if that will be helpful. Again, sorry to ask such a basic question!

 

[outsider]

photos please.

 

[tctrout]

The photos will definitely help, but remember that dry flies are all about proportions. When tied correctly with the appropriate materials, the flies should float properly. Can you be more specific about the style, such as Catskill, parachute, etc., which could help out a bit.

TC

 

[Dcap240]

If you use a gel floatant on your dries make sure you don't get any on the exposed hook bend and point. Otherwise, what TC said.

 

[sandfly]

I would say the proportions are wrong, to big of hackle or wings to large for one.

 

[FrequentTyer]

The only poor question is the one you don't ask! Take advantage of the experience of this forum and it will make you a better tyer.
I would bet your tail is too short and not splayed. And I'm guessing your not winging the fly. Wings are actually very helpful in getting the fly to land properly. Let's see some pictures so we can find out who guessed right
Mike.

 

[MKern]

The wings might be too high.
Or sometimes it is the knot isn't inline with the fly and twist your fly.

 

[psychobeagle12]

Well I don't have any dry fly hooks at the moment, but I will be tying some next week after I get hooks so I will definitely post up some photos then. I am mainly interested in parachute patterns, though I have yet to tie any of them. I started with one of the Rumpf kits and tried to tie (I think) the dark cahill pattern, which as far as I know is considered a dun? Not exactly sure. I will post pictures as soon as I can, and thanks for the advice so far!

 

[nfrechet]

tie some WITHOUT WINGS and give them a try

or tie up some parachute style flies

 

[Cold]

If your parachutes are falling on their side, I'd put money on the culprit being too tall of a wing post.

What material are you using? Sometimes a shorter, straighter hair like calf body can be a bit tricky for a beginner to manage, and the wing ends up long because it's easier to grab when it's bigger.

Instead, try learning the fundamentals using polypropylene yarn for your wing. If won't look quite as nice, and it won't be *quite* as visible on the water, but it's adequate in all respects, and much easier to work with, since you can tie it in at any length, even 2" long if you really want to...then as the last step of tying, cut the post off short.

Proportion-wise, a parachute should land properly most of the time, as long as it's wing isn't higher than the diameter of the wrapped hackle.

 

[FrequentTyer]

nfrechet wrote:
tie some WITHOUT WINGS and give them a try

What's the logic behind this suggestion?

 

[BrookieChaser]

Sometimes this may not be a fly issue, but a casting issue (breaking your wrist at the end of a cast). The breaking of the wrist causes the leader to hook. Where I've seen it is small streams with a sidearm cast.

 

[Cold]

What's the logic behind this suggestion?

My thought was that it'll test the theory of the wings being the culprit. In the traditional style dry, I'm imagine a wingless tie will fish at least 90% as good as one with wings at least 90% of the time, so if they try it without wings and they're landing upright, they know the wings are the issue. If they tie a few wingless and they're still not landing right, it isn't the wings that's causing it.

 

[psychobeagle12]

Aaah information overload!!! Lol ok some responses. First is that I haven't had a chance to tie any parachutes yet since I ran out of hooks a while back. Once I begin to tie them I will let you know how they float. Also, and not that I think I'm a great caster by any means, I don't think it is my casting as I have no problem getting store-bought flies of most types to float just fine. And the last thing. It's been quite some time since I attempted any dry flies, again because I ran out of hooks and couldn't be bothered to buy any more at the time, so maybe now that my tying has improved I have a better shot. I will be sure to let everyone know how my next dries come out. I am going for hooks either tomorrow night or Wednesday night.

 

[FrequentTyer]

Cold wrote:

What's the logic behind this suggestion?

My thought was that it'll test the theory of the wings being the culprit. In the traditional style dry, I'm imagine a wingless tie will fish at least 90% as good as one with wings at least 90% of the time, so if they try it without wings and they're landing upright, they know the wings are the issue. If they tie a few wingless and they're still not landing right, it isn't the wings that's causing it.

I don't agree with your 90% figure, but I also don't want to turn this into a winging debate. I wonder if most folks that fish wingless dry fly's could tell if the fly falls over. The wings act as indicators and make it obvious.
A properly balanced set of wings act as an airfoil and causes the fly to descend in an upright position. If the hackle and tail are correctly proportioned and the tail splayed, the wings can be less than balanced and the fly will not roll. I've tested this with Wulff patterns to the point of excluding one wing. If the tail is splayed, it will ride upright. It will spin like crazy on the cast, but that's another problem.
Sorry to add to the info overload psychobeagle.
Mike.

 

[Cold]

I think it'd depend on the water you fish most.

I typically hit high-gradient, fast-flowing freestones that are fairly sterile, so fish don't really have a buffet floating by. Therefore they tend not to be picky, so more often than not, a well-presented fly gets the grab, provided the overall form fits within a broad window of size, shape, and appearance.

 

[dryflyguy]

Besides the good info already given, you could try putting a divided V-tail on your flies. That should make them land and ride correctly more often

 

[mbaker]

- one more suggestion ( as if you need one)

I have had this problem with flies i have tied before. The hackle on the bottom of the fly is probably a bit long and makes it flop over. Simplest solution I have found is take your nippers or scissors and cut it off flat on the bottom. Done. Sits like a champ.