Difference in 4wt action?

[Fishmore]

Hello all, first post, year or so lurking. Got back into fly fishing last season after having done a little here and there 30 years ago. Still a newb. Had to re-learn a cast, get gear etc. Had a lot of fun last season and looking fwd to more.

I have amassed a collection of Craigslist gear and now own and have fished about 5 different rods of varoius wt and length. Mostly 4, 5, 6 wt in 8 to 9 ft. Western PA stockers.

I have a question regarding rod action and how it might play into successful hook sets.

My experience with 2 ea 4wt rods: Same stream, same spot, similar dry fly (12 -16 EHC). Different days but same fish basically. I had much better luck getting a successful set with what I consider a slower rod VS a faster rod and was wondering if that sound reasonable. Slow rod yielding a much better hook-up VS a missed set compared to my “faster” 4wt rod. Does it seem likely I need to pause a micro second longer on a fast-rod set???? Is that possible or even a ‘thing’? Could have all my missed sets have been ‘refusals’? I was too far away to tell but the looked good to me, or same as any other ‘eat’.

Rough numbers:

Slow rod (Echo Base 8’ 4wt) might have yielded 5 or 6 out of 8 eats.

Fast rod (Sage Flight 9’ 4wt) (maybe not fast by today’s standards , I could not say, but a fair bit stiffer/faster than the Echo Base) rod yielded 0 out of 10 or 12 eats the following day - very frustrating.

So far really liking the Echo better, very light, reasonable distances, and actually landed a fat 22” rainbow with it in smaller water - he fought but could not really ‘run’.

So, school me on different rod action and setting a hook. Also, am I crazy for liking the Echo better than the Sage? They are a bit different for sure.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Bamboozle]

Positively you can set a hook too fast with a faster rod and if the actions are the same, with a longer rod.

It's simply mechanics and how a rod transmits your hand movement based on it's stiffness and length. That doesn't mean fast/long rods are no good for the job, they just require some adjustment versus the slower shorter rod.

Leader construction can effect hook sets as well with knotted fluorocarbon leaders moving the fly quicker than a mono leader of the same construction or furled or braided butt leaders.

 

[Fishmore]

Thanks, I forgot about the length difference coming into play too. I didn’t even think about the effect a leader could have. I honestly could not tell if I was early or late with the set - not enough experience yet.

I was thinking I was probably early and it could be the rod since most else was equal. The faster-rod day was brutal, fish rising all around lots of hits and an 0-fer. Think it was the first time out with the rod. I had not had a day with so many missed sets. Maybe my natural reflexes work better with a slower rod.

I can see it being tough to re-train my brain with how many days I get out and then how many are good days with lots of hits.

 

[Bamboozle]

If it makes you feel any better, it happens to all of us honest folks...

Stick with it, you'll figure it out...

 

[Tigereye]

^^^^^ what he said. Could also be refusals as you imply but leaning toward too fast of a set, a common problem for someone on the left side of the learning curve. 😉

 

[Fishmore]

Next outing with that rod I’ll try and wait a smidge longer.

Thanks guys!

 

[Bamboozle]

Next outing with that rod I’ll try and wait a smidge longer.

Thanks guys!

Another thing you can try if you are not already doing it is to NOT inadvertently pull your fly line down with your line hand as you lift the rod to set the hook. That pulling adds even more movement to the fly at the end of your leader.

It takes discipline and practice but instead, make sure your line is ALWAYS going OVER the index finger of your ROD hand before it goes to the reel. While your fly is drifting in the zone, pinch your fly line tightly against the rod underneath using your forefinger against the rod.

When the fish strikes, resist the urge to release the line from your index finger while you pull the line with your line hand. INSTEAD keep the line pinched under your finger, keep BOTH hands together in the same movement and JUST LIFT the rod to set the hook...

Pinching instead of "pulling" will slow down the hook movement and can help a LOT. It's also easier than trying to wait a millisecond when you see a fish slurping your fly. If you ever get into midge fishing you will find that pinching is critical to keep from pulling tiny hooks from a fish's mouth.

Another trick...

When I am fishing tiny flies if I miss a few because I'm too quick, I won't pinch the line as hard. When I set the hook, I'll let a few to several inches of line SLIP between my index finger & the rod as I lift to set the hook. This is called a "slip strike" and it can make a huge difference when fishing hooks smaller than a size 20.

These techniques are easy to practice, refine and get into your repertoire. Just keep at it and have fun!!

 

[afishinado]

My suggestion is to read all the above and read it again......good stuff ^

Another reason for missed strikes can be the fish themselves and how they are striking.

There are times when fish short strike or maybe just pull off at the last second for some reason on certain days and our batting average goes way down on fish.

I've seen this happen often on waters where fish that are highly pressured by many anglers.

Anyway, the only way to improve is to fish more, Fishmore!!

Good luck.

 

[Fishmore]

I have the line pinched between rod and index for sure as a habit. But thinking about it now, I can’t be certain of the left hand. I would almost have to get a rod and see. I think I ‘let go’ typically and one-hand-set. I can see where 2 hands up is better in most cases.

So yeah - I may be pulling away with my left - will check - thx!

I have had a fair bit of luck with most of my other rods and never a day with so many missed sets ( I stopped counting at 12 ++).

The slower Echo rod is my go to at this point and becoming a favorite, for dry flies anyway. Those 2 days were on the Yough and I didn’t see the fish moving up either day. They were 30-ish ft away. I was fishing upstream, mostly to bubbled rises (not just rings if able to choose) and maybe letting the drift get to 90 degrees sometimes feeding out line to 180 degrees fishing downstream depending on position. Getting lots of eats (relatively speaking) trying to pause, etc.

Maybe it was a bad day or not good eats, but Im leaning heavily towards my hook sets / habits / rod.

I appreciate the advanced advice too. Sounds like some local still water practice is in order.

Maybe fiberglass or bamboo is in my future??? Or maybe instead of another rod - do a guided trip !!😀

 

[Bamboozle]

Fishmore:

Some days, with some fish during some hatches, all I ever do is tighten the line to set the hook. Maybe that's because I have a LOT of experience fishing with tiny hooks and I also have a lot of experience using circle hooks. That might explain why among other guys I fish with on occasion, I am typically the lightest "striker" in the bunch.

I also regularly check the sharpness of my hooks and touch them up when needed or if I miss a few I thought I should have hooked. I can't tell you how many times just doing this has increased my success or maybe just my confidence which is also a big help.

As far as identifying refusals...

If you aren't sure if you are missing fish or they are refusing your offerings, make sure you can see your leader on the surface when drifting a fly over the fish that are frustrating you. Using a paste floatant will help OR put a tiny, tiny blob of Biostrike Putty on or near your tippet knot. When you see a fish "take" your fly, if the leader or Biostrike blob doesn't move...

...it WASN'T a take, it was a refusal which might explain why you missed the four earlier fish.

As far as tackle goes, I typically prefer moderate to slower action rods in various lengths for all of my trout fishing and the opposite for bass where I like fast action 9 foot rods. I also have used every conceivable style of leader construction in lengths from 3 foot to as long as 20.

Like everyone, I have days when I miss fish, but for the most part, regardless of tackle I get the job done and so can you with some experience. In other words, buy a rod for whatever reason you choose but DON'T think you NEED a certain kind of rod to set the hook.

Cheers!!

 

[Fishmore]

I appreciate you guys’ taking the time time and sharing!

I’ll be working on these items for sure. Also, I’ve been meaning to pick up a hook file and will add some of the recommended putty to my list.

I like that file you linked - nice and compact - comes in a version with a knife too - nice - I have only ever seen the miniature mill-bastard type.

Thanks again!

 

[Bamboozle]

Get the EZE-Lap hook hone I linked to in my previous post and below...

Files are OK for bigger hooks but IMHO nothing beats a diamond coated sharpening rod for trout flies.

I have been carrying AND using an EZE-Lap Model S in every fishing set-up I have forever because they work on the tiniest hooks, last a long time and are small so they take up no space.

Once they had a narrow post with a hole on the plastic end opposite the rod so you could attach one to a zinger or tether it with a cord. Now it's gone, however I just drill a hole through the plastic on that end to attach it to something so I don't drop it in the drink.

You can still lose the cap this way but you won't lose the hone...

Another thing that works in pinch (but not as a substitute)...

If you carry a Swiss Army Knife like I do you can use the nail file on the nail file/screwdriver blade or the mini sharpening steel that is available in its own pocket on the Zermatt Pouches.

 

[Tigereye]

I have an ECHO fiberglass and if it makes you feel any better, when I fish it, I usually miss the first fish or 3 because I'm not in tune to the slower action..as I'm used to fishing faster rods. After a bit it all falls in line. 40 year fly fisher here. It's part of the fun.

 

[simpliFly]

I found it takes me a while to get used to setting a hook with a fast action rod after using a moderate action rod for a long duration (and vise versa, but going the fast direction is more difficult for me). I used to do more euro-nymphing and found switching from my euro rod to my fast action rod a real struggle - specifically with hook sets.

 

[Fishmore]

Ok - good to know I am not alone on this and it could be a timing thing, (also technique maybe).