Delaware River Access..... things are a changing!

[krayfish2]

If you fish the river system and / or use a boat, you might find some of this information on access interesting or heartbreaking.

You might say.....I fish there but don't have a boat so why should I give a s**t? Keep reading as it will likely impact you.

At this time, there's been no formal release from NY DEC but I've been made aware of some information from meetings between some guides, landowners and DEC.

Again, this information is from a pretty reliable source and expect that official releases will follow shortly.

The upper EB of the Delaware:
From the covered bridge to the 'jaws' it's about 16 miles. Boat launch closures will mean that you won't be able to run a drift boat on the upper 12 miles unless you have private access. Shinhopple access closed last year, Corbett will close this year and it's likely that the DEC will close the covered bridge to boat launching as well.

WB of the Delaware:
Approximately 16 miles from the Stilesville access to the junction. Boat access at Stilesville will be ending and the Hale Eddy launch will not be permitting any hard boat launches. This means that the top 3+ miles of the river will not be available to drift boats AND the option of launch / takeout at Hale Eddy will go away.

Delaware Main Stem:
From the junction to Callicoon, 27 miles.
Ongoing problems at the Long Eddy access basically renders the river 'unavailable' from the Buckingham access ALL THE WAY to Callicoon. THAT'S 21 miles of river!

Who, what, why?

Who is doing this and why? Well, it's very unhappy property owners and the DEC. Property owners have been verbally abused, there's been trespassing on their property, littering and unauthorized parking. I also suspect a certain guide may have something to do with this as a way to keep the river clear for him and his clients to enjoy. NJ plates? LoL. While you are 'entitled' to fish the river inside the high water mark, you are not entitled to trespass, illegally park, litter or assault someone who does own property on the river.

What will result from this?
Well, expect to see ALL boat traffic jammed into the same sections. This will result in river traffic jams. If you're wade fishing and see 2 boats on the horizon, expect 30 more are behind them. This will make wade fishing some sections not very pleasant due to heavy boat traffic. Ever see a jet boat going up the WB on plane? Guess what, that's probably going to be some guys resolution to the access problem. If you get pissed because 6 drift boats float by, how are you going to feel when 2 jet boats are zipping up and down while you are trying to present that #18 sulphur to a sipping trout?

A secondary thing that's going to happen is overloaded access points. With everyone being forced to use the exact same sections of river, the parking lots will overflow causing more problems and I'm not sure the DEC has looked that far forward. When a busy spring day in the past resulted in 24 trailers at Buckingham and now there will be 45....where are all of those cars going? The lot won't hold them. Landowners will get even more angry and this snowball is going to pick up steam as it rolls downhill.

Unless you've bought land or have a private launch, I see a storm brewing on the horizon for 2019 and hope it doesn't end up ruining things for everyone.

 

[Fredrick]

Andy did I mention that I have 1hp electric motor for one of my kayaks I can do 5.6 knots for 3 hours non stop :-D

Sucks for the people that make a buck off this river but with that being said there way to many boats floating down that river already, let alone making it more crowded on certain sections.

Few always ruining it for the many

 

[afishinado]

Fredrick wrote:
Andy did I mention that I have 1hp electric motor for one of my kayaks I can do 5.6 knots for 3 hours non stop :-D

Sucks for the people that make a buck off this river

but with that being said there way to many boats floating down that river already, let alone making it more crowded on certain sections.

Few always ruining it for the many

My take is the guides that "make a buck off this river" have or will have private access to these areas, it will essentially keep the weekend or sport anglers off the river or forced to crowd in the few remaining launch areas. This will pretty much privatize many miles of the EB, WB as well as the MS. I'm surprised the The DEC is behind this. Let see what happens.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Not interesting. Just heartbreaking.

 

[bradtheflyfisherman]

Well, that's a shame. I was planning on floating the WB for the first time this year with my buddy and his two-person drift raft.

 

[mediafly]

This is bad news for sure. There were days last year where the wait to take out at Buckingham was over an hour....8-10+ boats lined up at a time. Between angry neighbors and rude guides/fisherman, the long eddy access was scary. Cops there several nights. The west branch will be borderline unfishable during peak times with the mix of boats, pontoons and waders. I don’t see it getting better without adding more access....taking away access is worst case scenario. Sounds like a good time to get familiar with floating the Lehigh.

 

[krayfish2]

I know we sat, anchored up at Balls Eddy one night.....for almost 2 hours. 19 boats were ahead of us. Most guys hooked and booked or it could have been worse.

To me, Long Eddy isn't as scary as Lordville late at night but Long Eddy has a whole lot more problems. Almost rather bump into a bear instead of a guy on four-wheeler who roosted me with gravel while I was backing into the ramp. He then stopped, stared at me and said "what". Obviously looking for a problem. I did hear about the police and DEC being called there A LOT. Also heard that one angler had enough harassment that he whipped out a substantial pistol as the locals were giving him trouble.

With the closures, anticipated closures and the problems that will accompany
loss of access ..... someone's going to get hurt due to wild west type of shenanigans.

As for floating the Lehigh, better know how to row or how to do a lot of fiberglass work. LoL

 

[moon1284]

This is pretty brutal. I can see how maybe the east above shinhopple could be wade only. I understand why the ramp at shinhopple was bermed off, because that land got torn up. I'd assume a similar berm would be built at Corbett or boulders would be put there. Probably boulders at stilesville and hale eddy.

I can understand landowners frustration, but imo nysdec is doing a disservice closing these areas to launching boats (if its them and not private landowners) Im indifferent about not putting in at stilesville. The upper east was a good lessor known option while it lasted. I don't know what can be done except complaining to the dec or fudr.

I feel strongly about public access to streams and rivers. I have a property on the system with a PFR easement on it that I do not post although access is tough to begin with. Unfortunately there is no way to launch a boat there.

Im going things will work themselves out and access will eventually be improved, but it doesn't look like it at this point.

 

[CLSports]

Solution, buy a 5 HP motor for your drift boat or get a jet boat. You think the landowners and guides are pissed now? Wait until this turns into a superhighway of motor boats since access is limited.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Let me preface this question by saying:

1. I really hate when a few selfish a**holes ruin a great thing for the majority who are considerate and civil.

2. U sympathize with land owners who started by generously allowing access only to be taken advantage of by said a**holes.

3. After fishing the East Branch with Moon and Kray in their drift boats last October, I clearly understand how these boats are fantastic tools for fly fishing such waters. However, anything trailered will create minor erosion and rutting problems at unimproved access points.

Here is my question: How does this potential scenario affect launching & fishing from canoes, Kayaks and inflatables?

I maily fish out of a canoe because I can carry it to and from the water and launch it just about anywhere. I even launch and take out at the same spot on rivers by pulling the canoe back up through fast water the paddling long pools to return to my truck. This way I have minimal impact on the launch areas and still access larger rivers.

Obviously, this would not work well on high gradient waters like the Lehigh in the gorge.

Anyway, I'm holding on to a bit of hope that the canoe (or kayak) will help with the access issues on the Upper D.

 

[moon1284]

I think you are good with inflatables kayaks or canoes, you should still be able to use those access spots as long as they arent posted. You should be able to dump them in the water as long as you can wall them there.

 

[Fredrick]

Best way to solve the problem make the water off limits to any water craft that holds more than one angler .

 

[cms829]

Moon - I cant imagine that being the case. Case in point I trailer my raft. I can certainly park along the road in Stilesville and easily hump the boat into the water without backing my trailer down that "ramp".

I dont think it is going to make a difference if I can carry my boat versus actually launching a drift boat. But if that is the case, I'm glad I bought a raft. And I'll bet there will be a lot of hard boats for sale next season.

This is seriously heartbreaking. Lets take stilesville and hale for example. Who actually owns that land that the actual "ramps" are on? Is it state or private? Like stated above, it doesn't make sense to me that the DEC has a hand in this.

What can we do as a group to try and help? I wold have no problem at all working with you guys to put something together to present to the DEC? FUDR? Idk....I just feel like I need to do something.


Edit: 3 hp jet outdrive. wonder if that would push my raft? LOL.

 

[krayfish2]

My understanding is that the Hale ramp will allow launching. No trailers are allowed. Parking in the lot only. Big boulders will block the ramp making harder to stick a canoe in there. I'm under the impression that no launching at Stilesville will be tolerated. Parking in the spaces provided and none along the road. Sameh Corbett. I'm quite confident that the launches / parking at Stilesville and Corbett are private land. The landowners really don't have any use for it and we're nice enough to let the fishermen in. Due to traffic problems and damage to their property oh, we're losing them.

The Long Eddy saga is being drug out in court and might take years to resolve.

Guess we'll have to wait for the press release from DEC on this one to have all the necessary info. I have access to a ramp or two on private property but believe those will end up being closed due to increased use requests or abuse by the few using them. Time to get creative again and find your way around the traffic problems.

 

[cms829]

Who wants to chip in for a chinook? Have they said anything about AERIAL launching??

 

[mt_flyfisher]

Bad news? Not in my opinion.

Anytime you had to wait 2 hours for 19 boats to take out ahead of you means there were probably about 18 boats more on that stretch of river there than there should have been that evening, IMO.

I used to fish the upper Delaware pretty extensively 20 or more years ago, before all the commercial crap, and infestation of boats and folks from the cities started to show up. 30-40 years ago it was not very common to see any boats on the East or West Branch, and there were only a hanfull of floaters on the main above Calicoon.

A lot of the time, the East and West Branch are too small for hard sided boats anyway, so anything that can be done to minimize them there means for a potentially enhanced fishing experience, at least from my perspective.

I haven’t fished there much at all for the past 15-20 years, and was really looking forward to spending more time there this spring, and early summer. It sounds like I may need to take plenty of antacid pills if and when I go there, because just the thought of seeing all those boats is enough to give me an upset stomach.

(Just so you don’t think I’m opposed to boaters, I’ve owned a number of drift boats, canoes and inflatables during the past 30+ years. I’ve even been seriously thinking of buying a new raft and/or a jet boat this year, both set up for fly fishing). However, if any of you ever see me with a jet boat up there, please shoot me, because it would be that I’ve totally lost my mind.

John

 

[krayfish2]

MT,
As you know, during higher flows, the wading is quite limited / dangerous and float fishing comes into it's own...even on the upper sections of each branch.
We typically run a group up in May and again in the fall. You are welcome to join in. Got enough experience to figure out how to avoid the traffic.

As for running a jet boat.... already been done. Moon sent me a pic last year of a couple of yahoos with an 18' All terrain boat. Running it up and down the upper WB between Stilesville and Barking Dog. They wrecked the boat and left it sit in the river. Obviously hammered, disruptive to others and probably some damage to the river itself. There's also someone on the main that runs a fancy canoe looking thing with a 25 horse jet. As you float down, he fires it up and races you to the next pool. Pretty ridiculous. Have tried to talk to him as I was drifting by and he just stared like I had 3 heads. Not an overly friendly fella.

There are many times where you will find a ramp lot overflowing with empty trailers. That's when all of the guides jam a section because 'ths Drakes are on' or follow the caddis swarms. I will miss hatches and avoid those sections like the plague. 3 fish on a vacant river > 4 fish on a river that's so crowded you have to watch your backcast.

I still believe that some of the underlying cause has to do with a guide or two. I know that one of them was trying to get the number of boats per day restricted with working guides taking presentence. So, if it was a 50 boat limit per day on the entire system...and there were 50 guide trips that day, nobody else could use float river. I've had guys not knowing any better cut us off or pass on the wrong side of the boat...but.... The only time I've had someone float directly on top of the fish I was casting to was a guide. He backrowed on the fish for 30 seconds, looked back at me and said "how's that?". WTF? Never seen him before nor do I have a clue what the problem was. 500 yards later, I passed him and squeezed him between the bank and wade fishermen. Dropped anchor, had a beer and cigarette just to make him wait for me to move. Lastly, only boat to hit me, to low hole me, to cut in line at a ramp...a guide boat.

I won't shoot you unless you are running a jet on the Beaverkill....but I'm guessing someone else would beat me to it. LoL

PS. I'm also a licensed guide....a respectful and courteous one

 

[troutbert]

Are you Delaware River regulars planning to do anything about this?

If so, let us know.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

There's strength in numbers. Let me know how I can help.

Kray: I've encountered a few rude guides in both fresh and salt, (Outer Banks, SW Florida, Upper D. The vast majority are nice. It only takes a few jerks, though. That guide seems to have forgotten why he became a guide. I assume it was for love of the sport and helping others.

BTW, any typos are due to my vision being obscured by my rose colored glasses.

 

[krayfish2]

TB,

Are we doing anything about it? Well, there isn't really much to do. The obvious option for access is to buy land. Not feasible for most including me. You can befriend someone with land and hope they'll allow you to access the river or you take your lumps and join the rest of the masses on the same sections of water.

If the land is private and the owner was nice enough to allow access, that's a privilege to use it but some treat it as they have a right to use it. I don't blame the landowners if they got upset and shut it down. I have zero rights to use their property. The other problem you run into on the East is that the property owner actually owns the riverbed. You have the right to use the resource by floating through. Exiting the watercraft to wade fish or even anchoring is trespassing. Once again, some don't get the rules and argue with property owners. Some sections have public fishing right and those using the resource need to do their homework before putting their foot in their mouth. Kinda similar to the argument of navigable vs non- navigable they had on the Little J. Who knows if it will ever go to court due to an incident. What I can tell you is that most property owners are banded together on the subject. They'd prefer you to go somewhere else to enjoy your free time....like another state. LoL