copper john vs brassie

[skiltonian]

so i sat down today to tie up some copper johns (CJ), did one, and decided to tie brassies with a peacock body instead because the CJs took longer to tie. Given both are really attractor nymphs (even if the CJ is meant to minic a stone when tied with the biot tale and mayfly without and brassies meant to minic a chironoid or caddis depended on size, ect.), I wondering if its really worth the time to make the CJs and even think the brassies work better in low, clear water which is the majority of what we SE PAers get to fish.
Thoughts?

 

[njk3395]

I use a some brassies in smaller sizes, but most of the time I prefer a CJ whether it be small or large.. Idk, might just be me, but I've always had a ton of luck with them.

 

[shakey]

i like to use brassies on a fairly large 37160 with a peacock head or white sewing thread head with a red copper body

 

[tracker12]

What size do you tie those brassie' in?

 

[skiltonian]

tied them up in 16 and 18. once i get into size 20 and lower, I use the quick descent aluminun dubbing. i think I've done those in 26s but not lower. I really don't tie much below 24s, anymore.

I agree, CJs work, no question there but think the brassies would work just as well, as they take a lot less time to bang out. guess the CJ would sink faster and be better for stained water. thats the only advantages i can come up with. Again, pressured fish or low water, I found the brassies worked best.

I'll have to wind up doing both - I literally have one CJ left out of all my fly boxes and stock.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I have had success with both fly patterns. Brassies are quicker to tie but I still like Copper Johns. I really tie both.

 

[bam]

I don't have much experience comparing the two on stream, but I'd say the copper john represents a nymph or emerger better than the brassie. More movement/flash with the hackle and back. I doubt it really matters much when searching and probably matters more as hook size increases.

 

[gfen]

Copper wire body, herl thorax, turn or two of partridge.

 

[midnightangler]

i basically just tie what gfen said. that pattern is hard to beat.

for size 20 and smaller, I usually use a bit of natural SLF squirrel dubbing as a substitute for partridge. its faster than trying to fuss with tiny partridge feathers.

 

[TUNA]

I went out yesterday and started with a 3 fly rig. I also noticed a few Midges coming off, but no risers. My 1st fly was a size 10 Black and Grizzly Wooly Worm, 2nd fly was a size 16 Black and Copper CJ with rubber legs, and the 3rd fly was a size 18 Blue Brassie with Blue Peacock Herl and a silver tungsten bead. I caught 4 on the CJ and 4 on the Brassie, and 2 more on the Wooly Worm. In my experience, Brassies (fished properly and during Midge hatches), and CJ's both work equally as well. I prefer to tie Brassies over CJ's because I can tie a heck of a lot more Brassies in less time. Also, by adding different materials to a Brassie, you can represent other food items to the Trout. Like gfen said a turn or two of Partridge and Chartruse wire can make a Brassie look like a Caddis Larva starting to pupate. Red Brassies and Partridge can look like a Midge pupa. I like CJ's, but Brassies usually win out for me.

 

[BrookieBuster101]

well because the two flies mimic two different insects, its not really fair to put one before the other. CJs work when the fish are keyed in on bigger bugs (i.e soneflies mayfles) and brasies work when fish are looking at midges and small caddis. Both are wotrth having in your box

 

[afishinado]

CJs & Brassies are both flashy attractor flies. Who knows what the fish think they represent? Anyway, I usually try to fish with the simplest (to tie) flies possible. I too find both flies catch fish and the CJ is very time consuming to tie when compared the a brassie, so the brassie gets a thumbs up from me. Try red wire brassies for stockies (especially bows).

I do tie some CJs to represent some stoneflies since they look good and have some weight to them. Try tying two contrasting wire colors for the abdomen to give a ribbed effect.

 

[steve2u42]

i would like to through one more question into this. I have been told to keep Copper Johns of various sizes and also Pheasant Tail nymphs of different sizes. My question is, should i and why add Prince nymphs to my supply and what size?

 

[gfen]

Pheasant tails are nice and generic and cover lots of stuff, having htem on hand in lots of sizes is a great idea. Like the Hare's Ear, its a bonafide generic fly, its lots of things to lots of fish because it looks edible.

CJs and PNs not so much. You could go through life never fishing htem and be just fine.

 

[afishinado]

steve2u42 wrote:
i would like to through one more question into this. I have been told to keep Copper Johns of various sizes and also Pheasant Tail nymphs of different sizes. My question is, should i and why add Prince nymphs to my supply and what size?

They're all good patterns. Keep a couple of each (CJs, PTs, & PNs) in larger and smaller sizes. Size sometimes matters, so don't have a fly box full of different patterns in the same size. Add some HEs (hares ears) and wooly buggers to your box and I like your chances.

 

[franklin]

steve2u42 wrote:
i would like to through one more question into this. I have been told to keep Copper Johns of various sizes and also Pheasant Tail nymphs of different sizes. My question is, should i and why add Prince nymphs to my supply and what size?

White wings of the PN might make the difference at times. The others have other triggers.

 

[ryguyfi]

nothing beats a Hares ear for me. I've never found much success with anything that has a wire body. Hares ear... different colors, sizes, weight, add flash, add partridge. You can tie a HE about a thousand different ways. That's what I would add to your CJ and PT's.