What has caused the degradation of Green Spring? Is it ruined by development and sedimentation, etc? I am not familiar with the stream and I've never fished it.It’s a shame what has become of Green Spring. I live 10 minutes away and used to fish it 15-20 time a year. It was a hidden gem that was never pressured compared to Big Spring and had one of the best sulfur hatches in the valley. The state tried fall stocking of fingerling browns about 10 years ago, but I believe that plan has been abandoned.
The owners of laurel hill trout farm have a hatchery on the headwaters, that can’t help. We saw what happened at big spring with a headwater hatchery . The stream has been degraded for sure and prob down cut through legacy sediment too. I wonder when the last time they surveyed and what they found?What has caused the degradation of Green Spring? Is it ruined by development and sedimentation, etc? I am not familiar with the stream and I've never fished it.
This is a pretty good summary: http://www.limestoner.com/Green-Spring-Fly-Fishing-Guiding-and-Instruction.htmlThe owners of laurel hill trout farm have a hatchery on the headwaters, that can’t help. We saw what happened at big spring with a headwater hatchery . The stream has been degraded for sure and prob down cut through legacy sediment too. I wonder when the last time they surveyed and what they found?
Do these salamanders still exist on the breeches? Never seen one, but could believe it.Man 4.3 million dollars, i know I will get flack for this but I’d personally wish they’d just saved most of that money and used this as an excuse to pull the dams and leave it as a Snakey stream winding through the lake bed as Krayfish mentioned he saw it. Throw some trees in the lake bed and create some wetlands for the breeches endangered eastern mud salamander instead of for rubber trout. Total pipe dream and not what anyone else wants to see i’m sure.
Not sure, i hope so. Apparently they like ground water sources like springs and fens, probably how children’s lake used to before colonialism.Do these salamanders still exist on the breeches? Never seen one, but could believe it.
You aren't wrong thereI don't necessarily disagree with you. If Green Spring Creek were located anywhere else, I'd wager that there would be more appetite to try and restore it. With being in the shadow of famous CV limestoners, Green Springs has gotten short shrift. I know that place quite well. Are there wild browns there? YES. Are there a lot of them present? NO. Could there be with considerable money, time, effort expended? LIKELY. I don't think the necessary ingredients are there to restore it to a brook trout fishery, but I do think you could successfully bring about a self-supporting wild brown and/or wild rainbow fishery. I'd much prefer that over maintaining status-quo. I can't help but think others here would want that too. I hate seeing limestone spring creek degradation seeing they are such precious resources.
Dear Fish Sticks,Lower green looks like it needs serious legacy sediment removal to reconnect increases in flows or over land sheet flow into the creek to gravel basal layer instead of perched on legacy sediment baking in the sun
I think bullhead branch coming into green could probably sustain wild native brook trout but I am not sure. Spring creeks can real real real dirty and still support brookies think hammer creek in lebanon, fishing creek with nicholas meats and PFBC hatchery upstream, big spring and the phos and manure run off issues.
valley full of Ag including a slaughterhouse that sprays blood and animal products on to the land and the tylersville hatchery(anyone have a picture if the effluent), do you have data you have seen that you would like to share with us saying it doesn’t have higher nitrogen, phos or more coliform bacteria than your average PA brook trout stream???You keep referencing how dirty Fishing Creek in the narrows is... Would you like to share chemical or biological data that the rest of us haven't seen? Yes Nicholas Meats is in the headwaters and Sugar Valley is full of ag operations, but Fishing Creek does not have the degraded physical habitat that Hammer, Green spring and other intensly developed limestoners exhibit in scpa and some Lehigh Valley streams resulting from significant sediment, nutrient and stormwater pollution.
God bless John Prine! It's a shame he's no longer with us.Dear Fish Sticks,
What it really needs are 200,000 people to move out of the Cumberland Valley region and we know that ain't ever going to happen in the fastest growing region in the State.
The CV is Centre County all over again, it just lags in ruination because it doesn't host a major university and all that encompasses. The locals will compensate for that with 1,000,000 square foot mega-warehouses though. They have done a fantastic job of it in the 20 years I've lived around here, and absolutely nothing will change their progress.
It's kind of funny how our population in PA hasn't grown much in my lifetime, but the land utilized to house that population has probably doubled or even tripled over that same time span?
Apologies to the great lyricist John Prine, but I've seen this as a kid from Saint Clair my entire lifetime.
"Then the coal company came with the world's largest shovel
And they tortured the timber and stripped all the land
Well, they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken
Then they wrote it all down as the progress of man."
It's houses and warehouses now, but the results are mirror images.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
Do you know if SRBC granted Nicholas meats their water grab? I saw meeting was in may and couldn’t find anything right after the meeting.Fishing creek is not your average pa brook trout stream though. It has a much larger drainage basin and not to mention a significant influence from karst geology. It does have brook trout in relatively good numbers in certain sections. Compared to most Lehigh Valley, Lancaster co and cv limestoners Fishing Creek in the narrows has better water quality and instream habitat without a doubt. If you had macro ibi data and water quality data handy, I am sure that would confirm my above statement. That's not saying there are not challenges within the watershed, but a lot of work has been done within the agricultural community to reduce impacts on water quality and reduce sediment runoff from ag fields.