Changes in 2016 PA trout regs language

HopBack

HopBack

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Did anyone notice that the term "ATW" was replaced with "stocked waters" when describing closed waters from February 28th to opening day? PA fishing summary of fishing regulations

There is also a note in the bottom of the summary that states that it is legal to fish class A waters year round as long as you catch and release during the closed trout season. This has been long debated on this forum and should help to clear things up a bit but in my opinion the term "stocked waters" opens up a whole new set of problems on some pretty popular streams.
 
It doesn't mention class B or C waters.. And it intimates that Class A waters are closed between March 1 and the opening day.

With the changes made to stocking over Class A populations on certain streams, there were also regulations written in to explicitly cover the extended season on Class A streams. I think the target was the ten or so streams that are being stocked over.

It really doesn't clear anything up :)
 
Here this is the special note at the bottom of the summary.

NOTE: It is legal to fish for trout in Class A trout streams year-round, with no harvest beginning the day after Labor Day through the opening day of trout season the following year.
 
The dates listed for the extended season (no harvest) on class A streams and the wording of the above referenced note are in contradiction to each other. It is actually more confusing than before.
 
I always thought ATW was misleading anyway. What’s that make a wild trout stream, non-approved trout water? I don’t see where the change in name makes any difference in regulations. The muddy parts are still the same.
 
The reg book seems to be about as clear as mud in terms of the referenced topic. But yes I did notice they changed it from ATW to STW. I believe this will open a whole new set of problems with private stockings and such.
 
Yeah, the "debate" was rarely about class A waters, which were spelled out fairly clearly before. It was about non-stocked, non-ATW class B's, C's, and D's. i.e. "unlisted" waters.

Some felt that they basically mirrored class A's. There was nothing outlawing fishing them, but at the same time, nothing suggesting you can either, and since there was language specifically allowing C&R on class A's, why wouldn't they have just said "non-ATW's"?

The only thing the change could be interpreted to clear up is that, in many cases, a whole stream was designated ATW. Not just the stocked sections. It's quite common that sections of a stream are stocked while others are not but have wild fish. But even where it wasn't stocked, the seasons and limits were the same as if it were. Has that changed?
 
pabrookie94 wrote:
The reg book seems to be about as clear as mud in terms of the referenced topic. But yes I did notice they changed it from ATW to STW. I believe this will open a whole new set of problems with private stockings and such.

^ agreed. In an effort to clarify, I think the new verbiage opens up a new can of worms.

Is a wild trout stream (non ATW) stocked by a private club now open for harvest during the "closed" (for harvest) season because it is a "stocked" stream? I think not, but the question will be raised.

Edit: Just read PC's post above. Agree, true in the reverse; if a section of an ATW is not stocked, is harvest prohibited? Again, I think not, but I bet the question will be asked.

 

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My gosh. . .here we go. :cool:

I suppose the cold weather is finally here so the PFBC managed to troll us with this new reg gig. :lol:
 
As a part of my 2016 updates on the GPS Fishing Guide to PA, I got some clarifications directly from PFBC that I thought I'd share.

From what I understand, the only streams closed to fishing prior to opening day are those streams listed as "Stocked Trout Waters" in the "Regulated Trout Waters" list.

If the stream's name is included in the list, then that stream is closed from headwaters to mouth. If however the listing includes a description of the upper and lower limits, then only the section between those limits in closed.

Some streams may be closed to fishing for reasons other than stocking like the "Designated Nursery Waters" listed in the Lake Erie Tributary regulations so you need to check carefully for other closures.

In general though, any stream not listed as a regulated water is regulated under Commonwealth Inland Waters and is open to fishing year round but no trout may be taken except during the "Regular Season". The are catch and release for the remainder of the year.

When it comes to wild trout, it is important to understand that Class A is not a regulation but rather a classification of the naturally reproducing trout density. This is true of Class B-D as well so the classification has no relevance to stream closures.

This year 10 streams that are traditionally stocked have been newly designated as Class A. These streams are still closed to fishing because they will continue to be stocked. Even though they are newly designated Class A streams, they retain their "Stocked Trout Waters" regulation.

I spoke to the PFBC's Coldwater Fisheries specifically about these streams to learn more and I'll summarize what I discovered.

They said, Fish Commission policy recently changed to allow streams that have been traditionally stocked and heavily fished based on angler surveys to be designated as Class A steams if they hold Class A populations of Brown or Rainbow trout. These streams can continue to be stocked as well.

Importantly, no stream previously designated as a Class A stream prior to 2015 can be stocked and also no streams designated as holding Class A Brook Trout can be stocked.

According to my source, a few more streams may become Class A n the future and will continue to be stocked but this is not going to be a significant change.

In my opinion, the policy change allows PFBC to acknowledge Class A populations in waters traditionally stocked while continuing stocking for the benefit of anglers.

If you have any questions on regulations for a specific stream or would like to verify this for yourself, I recommend you call the Regional Law Enforcement phone number which is listed at the beginning of the Summary Book.

 
One more thought. The change of "Approved Trout Waters" to "Stocked Trout Waters" is a change to the name of the regulation and not a change to the way the water is managed.

The new name is definitely confusing because only portions of a "Stocked Trout Water" are actually stocked. I think Jersey calls these streams "Spring Trout Stocked Waters with No In-Season Closures" which is worse. Their streams are closed just like ours. I guess they mean "with Pre-Season closures only."

I think the real issue is how do you find a good name for this type of regulation.

 
UFMGuy wrote:
As a part of my 2016 updates on the GPS Fishing Guide to PA, I got some clarifications directly from PFBC that I thought I'd share.

From what I understand, the only streams closed to fishing prior to opening day are those streams listed as "Stocked Trout Waters" in the "Regulated Trout Waters" list.

If the stream's name is included in the list, then that stream is closed from headwaters to mouth. If however the listing includes a description of the upper and lower limits, then only the section between those limits in closed.

Some streams may be closed to fishing for reasons other than stocking like the "Designated Nursery Waters" listed in the Lake Erie Tributary regulations so you need to check carefully for other closures.

In general though, any stream not listed as a regulated water is regulated under Commonwealth Inland Waters and is open to fishing year round but no trout may be taken except during the "Regular Season". The are catch and release for the remainder of the year.

When it comes to wild trout, it is important to understand that Class A is not a regulation but rather a classification of the naturally reproducing trout density. This is true of Class B-D as well so the classification has no relevance to stream closures.

This year 10 streams that are traditionally stocked have been newly designated as Class A. These streams are still closed to fishing because they will continue to be stocked. Even though they are newly designated Class A streams, they retain their "Stocked Trout Waters" regulation.

I spoke to the PFBC's Coldwater Fisheries specifically about these streams to learn more and I'll summarize what I discovered.

They said, Fish Commission policy recently changed to allow streams that have been traditionally stocked and heavily fished based on angler surveys to be designated as Class A steams if they hold Class A populations of Brown or Rainbow trout. These streams can continue to be stocked as well.

Importantly, no stream previously designated as a Class A stream prior to 2015 can be stocked and also no streams designated as holding Class A Brook Trout can be stocked.

According to my source, a few more streams may become Class A n the future and will continue to be stocked but this is not going to be a significant change.

In my opinion, the policy change allows PFBC to acknowledge Class A populations in waters traditionally stocked while continuing stocking for the benefit of anglers.

If you have any questions on regulations for a specific stream or would like to verify this for yourself, I recommend you call the Regional Law Enforcement phone number which is listed at the beginning of the Summary Book.

We understand this part and this has long been discussed on this forum (including the addition to the Class A list of streams that are stocked, or will be stocked since being designated Class A).

 
HopBack wrote:
Did anyone notice that the term "ATW" was replaced with "stocked waters" when describing closed waters from February 28th to opening day?

IMHO, that is just a change in language, not a change in regulations.

And it's a good change in the language.

"Stocked waters" is a far more clear term than "approved trout waters."

 
The regulations state that fishing is closed on stocked waters and downstream of stocked waters but when you looked at the list of approved stocked waters they mention boundaries. This to me means that some stocked waters are open downstream of their respective stocked areas. Talk about confusing! Why can't we just make things plain and simple.
 
Im glad to see Im not the only one who was confused by this.
 
Ok, so lets get this straight:

Opening day till Sept. 5 - easy as pie. All trout streams open under regular season creel limits.

Sept. 5 to Feb. 29 - For stocked waters that are NOT class A, the creel limit drops to 3. For stocked waters that ARE class A, they become C&R. And for non-stocked waters, they are C&R.

Mar 1 to opening day - Stocked waters are closed regardless of whether they are class A or not. Non-stocked waters are open to C&R regardless of wild trout classification.

Is that right? If so, it's directly contrary to this sentence, which is found in the book.

It is legal to fish for trout in Class A trout streams year-round.

Because that wouldn't be true on the 10 class A streams which are also stocked, which would be closed from Mar 1 to opening day.
 
Yes this is poorly worded and confusing. (Like much of what the PAFBC puts out.)

Don't worry. Your local waterways patrolmen will decide on the spot if you are in violation depending on how he's feeling that day!

Here's a good one- Trout Run in southern Lancaster County is not stocked and is not an ATW yet there were fresh ATW posters hanging there last year.

 
Fishidiot wrote:

We understand this part and this has long been discussed on this forum (including the addition to the Class A list of streams that are stocked, or will be stocked since being designated Class A).

Sorry!

It seemed relevant to the earlier comments.

 
If you read the description this way instead of the way it's written, I think it makes more sense. I swapped two paragraphs but I think this is what they are trying to say.


Many streams, lakes, ponds and reservoirs are officially classified as “stocked trout waters” This means that these waters contain significant portions that are open to public fishing and are stocked with trout. These waters are open to trout harvest during the “extended season”

These waters are closed to all fishing (including taking of minnows) from March 1 to 8 a.m. on the opening day of the trout season. A person shall be deemed to be fishing if he or she has in possession any fishing line, rod or other device that can be used for fishing while on or in any water or on the banks within 25 feet of any water where fishing is prohibited.

Unlisted tributary streams (those not included in this list of “stocked trout waters”) are not open to harvest of trout during the “extended season.” Only stocked trout waters and all waters downstream of stocked trout waters are open during this period. Spearing fish is not permitted in any of these waters at any time of the year.

This ties closures to "stocked trout waters"


 
Quit stocking Class A streams....Boom, problem fixed.

Sorry, I know this brings nothing to the conversation.
 
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