Bushkill goes completely dry again!
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lycoflyfisher
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Well said Baron, however the fact of the matter is in many cases only the bottom line matters to some people. If regulations or upgrades to prevent or reduce pollution levels here become greater than outsourcing production overseas or to a different state then that is what happens. Greed is an ugly animal... In every corner of the state you can find examples of abandoned industry that is now a Superfine site and still causing pollution or unusable barring major investments for remediation. Coal mines, old steel or heavy metal processing, paper, pharmaceutical, food processing plants etc. I agree there must be balance to provide for jobs and economic opportunity, but we also need clean water and clean air to survive. Balance is possible but it takes private and public cooperation.
Again that's very well said , but please take into consideration the fact that , these US manufacturing companies aren't coming back because environmental regulations alone . I know this for a fact a top factory line guy in Tijuana Mexico makes $1.50 an hour , thats the deal , same job in the US depending on seniority ,pays I'm guessing $18 .
I would love for those jobs to come back but they aren't . Wanna subsidize new technology and manufacturing ok maybe . The fact we can all agree on I hope is , some of these companies arent good neighbors/citizens . They didn't care about pollution , but more importantly the didn't care about people .
I would love for those jobs to come back but they aren't . Wanna subsidize new technology and manufacturing ok maybe . The fact we can all agree on I hope is , some of these companies arent good neighbors/citizens . They didn't care about pollution , but more importantly the didn't care about people .
Baron
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All true. However we need the jobs and also the product. Our job is to see to it that we can have both. The tools are various with diplomacy and legislation being at the top. Pray, teach your children correctly, vote, study history. I'm not consistent with any of these characteristics or practices.
None of us are going to solve these issues alone. Its a long and continuing process that is thousands of years old. We look at things in too short of a time frame and so we become impatient. The only reason I 'piped up' was that the message going forth seemed to be that we don't need the quarry, Pfizer and the rest. But of course we do need it all. I nominate Afish as chief attache and advisor between negotiating parties.
None of us are going to solve these issues alone. Its a long and continuing process that is thousands of years old. We look at things in too short of a time frame and so we become impatient. The only reason I 'piped up' was that the message going forth seemed to be that we don't need the quarry, Pfizer and the rest. But of course we do need it all. I nominate Afish as chief attache and advisor between negotiating parties.
CLSports
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tabasco_joe
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Haven't posted in a long time but stop by once in a while to catch up.
My family was the originator of that quarry.
From what I remember, the pumps at the quarry at the time supplemented the creek flow.
Of course back then it wasn't as deep as it is now.
My expectation if the quarry were abandoned is that the creek would end up running dry during droughts as it would need to fill the quarry to the bed level in order to flow.
And the stream flow would often not be sufficient to offset subsurface flows. Especially during droughts.
Bottom line is that the stream is dependent on the pumps and as such at risk if/when pumps fail. Without the pumps I doubt the stream would be as viable a trout stream as it is.
My family was the originator of that quarry.
From what I remember, the pumps at the quarry at the time supplemented the creek flow.
Of course back then it wasn't as deep as it is now.
My expectation if the quarry were abandoned is that the creek would end up running dry during droughts as it would need to fill the quarry to the bed level in order to flow.
And the stream flow would often not be sufficient to offset subsurface flows. Especially during droughts.
Bottom line is that the stream is dependent on the pumps and as such at risk if/when pumps fail. Without the pumps I doubt the stream would be as viable a trout stream as it is.
If the pumps were shut down, the stream would go dry, for awhile.
That's because the groundwater is presently pumped down far below it's normal level, and far below the streambed elevation.
So the groundwater flows towards that lowest elevation, where the water is being pumped, since water flows downhill. It doesn't flow uphill to the streambed.
But over time the groundwater would rise back up to its normal level and the pit would fill with water. Then the springs would flow again because the groundwater level would once again be higher than the streambed, and water flows downhill. The spring flow would maintain the stream's flow, just as before the quarry was built.
That's because the groundwater is presently pumped down far below it's normal level, and far below the streambed elevation.
So the groundwater flows towards that lowest elevation, where the water is being pumped, since water flows downhill. It doesn't flow uphill to the streambed.
But over time the groundwater would rise back up to its normal level and the pit would fill with water. Then the springs would flow again because the groundwater level would once again be higher than the streambed, and water flows downhill. The spring flow would maintain the stream's flow, just as before the quarry was built.
Swattie87
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Think of the quarry like a brand new reservoir, with the normal groundwater/spring elevation being the spillway elevation. When the quarry is filled to that elevation, water will flow normally via those springs (over the spillway if you will). But until it’s filled to that elevation, no water will flow downstream of it without pumps bypassing water around the quarry (or a manually operated bottom release gate in the case of a reservoir).
Just like a filling a reservoir, it takes time and surplus precipitation to fill the quarry. Ideally, if the quarry were to close, you’d continue to use the pumps to pump a minimally viable constant flow to the streambed to sustain fish life, while allowing any excess precipitation to refill the quarry. Once the quarry was full to the natural groundwater level, the springs will flow, the water table will behave normally, and you can shut off the pumps.
Just like a filling a reservoir, it takes time and surplus precipitation to fill the quarry. Ideally, if the quarry were to close, you’d continue to use the pumps to pump a minimally viable constant flow to the streambed to sustain fish life, while allowing any excess precipitation to refill the quarry. Once the quarry was full to the natural groundwater level, the springs will flow, the water table will behave normally, and you can shut off the pumps.
Swattie87
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In the case of the Bushkill, springs. Once filled, the water from the quarry would re-enter the natural aquifer and emerge as springs. And the stream would maintain a “normal” flow for that area, for given conditions. In could still in theory “sink” during low water periods, similar to some other limestone streams in PA (portions of BFC for example), but right now, if the pumps stop, a section of stream goes dry.
The reservoir analogy was just to help explain what happens to the water, and why the creek would run dry (if not for the pumps) until the quarry filled.
The reservoir analogy was just to help explain what happens to the water, and why the creek would run dry (if not for the pumps) until the quarry filled.
lycoflyfisher
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Swattie in theory that would be a logical prediction of the result of this quarry pit filling with water. I believe from information that I am hearing, the quarry officials and engineers believe that the discharge from the quarry pit will never enter the Bushkill and predict that the section in question will be a losing stream from that point forward.
The water would not be coming from "discharge from the quarry pit."
It would be coming from springs, flowing out of the groundwater, in the normal way.
I've seen many abandoned quarries that are now ponds. None of them have discharge from the quarry pit. But the nearby springs and streams are flowing fine.
It would be coming from springs, flowing out of the groundwater, in the normal way.
I've seen many abandoned quarries that are now ponds. None of them have discharge from the quarry pit. But the nearby springs and streams are flowing fine.
lycoflyfisher
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Troutbert, I fully understand that....
From what I have heard and seen, the company believes based on their hydro studies that the springs that will discharge water connected to a filled Hercules quarry impoundment may not be in the Bushkill Watershed...
From what I have heard and seen, the company believes based on their hydro studies that the springs that will discharge water connected to a filled Hercules quarry impoundment may not be in the Bushkill Watershed...
The link to an article I posted earlier in this thread has info about the water flow path to/from the quarry and the stream>
https://www.inquirer.com/news/trout-fishing-bushkill-creek-sinkholes-lehigh-cement-plant-20201025.html?fbclid=IwAR2utoVMLiX8vc9JjD5ChMBMwMhl4bUyV4_5X8lbSaDPer6HlEUN9VkGAmI
https://www.inquirer.com/news/trout-fishing-bushkill-creek-sinkholes-lehigh-cement-plant-20201025.html?fbclid=IwAR2utoVMLiX8vc9JjD5ChMBMwMhl4bUyV4_5X8lbSaDPer6HlEUN9VkGAmI
