Bushkill Fish Kill..............

[troutbert]

JimKennedy wrote:

The unfortunate reality is, once Hercules shuts down, the creek is finished. The creek relies on pumped water. Once the company is gone and the pumping stops, the quarry will fill up and warm surface water will be what ends up in the creek.

When quarries like this close, the groundwater level comes back up to its normal elevation. Then the springs flow again, feeding the stream as before.

There are many abandoned deep quarries in PA, and this is what happens when they are closed.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

From everything i read troutbert would be correct.
All it takes is for the holes to fill and create back pressure.

 

[mtelesha]

Why is it the creek is hurt when the electricity goes out? Why can't it be the other way around that the plant gets no water when the power goes out?

I bet you there has to be a way that passively diverts the water to the creek when the power goes out.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

mtelesha wrote:
Why is it the creek is hurt when the electricity goes out? Why can't it be the other way around that the plant gets no water when the power goes out?

I bet you there has to be a way that passively diverts the water to the creek when the power goes out.

If there was a passive way to divert water back into the creek when the power goes out, don't you think the company would have already done that instead spending hundred of thousands of millions of dollars pumping water every year? Karst systems are incredibly complex, and even after intensive studies there are often not clear answers on how local or regional hydrology truly works. When the water enters the quarry it is likely several hundred feet below the stream bed.

The simple solution is to say the quarry shouldn't exist, but as with most extraction industries could we live without concrete? So now we are stuck trying to play a balancing act between societal interests and environmental protection. Given what our landscape looked like 75-100 years ago we have came a long way, but clearly there is more work to be done.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Lyco,

With all due respect, and i do get ya, i had someone throw that same thing at me.
If i may, i would like to ask....

Would we be without concrete without just this one quarry?

Why is it, asking a bad neighbor to do what they promised to do too much?

Is it possible, eliminating the bad actor and denying further permits and forcing them out, creating a path or niche for a more responsible and friendly neighbor?

Just a few thoughts.
I think we could survive without this one bad company.

 

[hooker-of-men]

]

 

[troutbert]

lycoflyfisher wrote:

Karst systems are incredibly complex, and even after intensive studies there are often not clear answers on how local or regional hydrology truly works.

The situation there is not really complicated, and has been thoroughly studied there and at other quarries.

Here is a brief summary.

When a limestone quarry first begins, they are removing limestone near the surface so they are above the ground water level, so they are working in dry conditions, and no pumping is needed.

As they dig down lower, they eventually reach the ground water level, so water seeps into the quarry pit.

To continue quarrying deeper, they start pumping water, to lower the ground water level to keep the bottom of the quarry pit dry. The pumped water is released into the stream.

Some of these quarries eventually go down very deep, so the groundwater table is pumped down much deeper than its normal level.

The springs that had once fed the stream then dry up, because the groundwater table is now far below the elevation of the springs.

Now the stream is dependent on pumping to maintain base flow. If the pumps shut off for some reason, the stream goes dry. That being the case, it's imperative that the pumped supply of water is not interrupted. They should have backup systems to make sure of this.

That is the current situation and it's been that way for many years.

Someone brought up the question of what would happen if the quarry closed.

If the quarry closed and simply turned off the pumps permanently, what would happen at first is that the stream would go dry.

With no pumping taking place, the groundwater level would rise, eventually reaching its ordinary elevation. Then the groundwater would once again flow out of the springs, feeding the stream as in the pre-quarry days.

But when a quarry that is pumping down the groundwater is closed, the temporary drying out of the stream could be avoided. They could continue running the pumps after the quarry is closed down during a transition period. They could adjust the amount of water being pumped to maintain the base flow of the stream, while allowing the ground water to rise back up to its normal elevation.

If there any groundwater hydrologists in the house, they could probably give a better explanation. I gave a layman's explanation. But as I said, it's not very complicated.

 

[rrt]

As one who lives where abandoned limestone quarries have filled with water, I am surprised that the creek relies on the pumped water from the quarries. Quarries here were located adjacent to streams, and they did not affect the creeks.

Perhaps this quarry was located in an inappropriate place and should never have been quarried. Too late now, though.

Around here, an outfit wanted to re-open an abandoned quarry that nature had reclaimed. it has been stopped, at least for now, because of an endangered species that lives there and nowhere else. Also, bats' hibernacula exist in the quarry, and apparenty these bats have not all died from white-nose syndrome. This rock was to he hauled to and used at an old power plant. Trucks would haul the rock on a narrow road that is now limited to 10 or 12 tons. The hauling of the rock would have been illegal.

Anyhow, the fish kill on the Bushkill is a real shame. If any more quarries are planned there, you will have to mobilize ahead of time to make sure the quarry won't ruin another stream or, if it will, work to get it stopped. Around here, the Juniata Valley Audubon Society was the prime opponent of the quarry, and the JVAS was well-prepared in stopping it, at least for now. In addition, the Sierra Club deserves a pat on the back for its activism in opposing the quarry. Bill Anderson, president of the Little Juniata River Association, was also involved here.

(Sorry for rambling and for being so long.)

 

[ryansheehan]

Just want to make sure I read that right. Company comes in and diverts water from a public stream. Company pumps fail and the stream dries up. We should be thankful the company supplies us water 360 days a year, because without them we would have.........

 

[hooker-of-men]

ryansheehan wrote:
Just want to make sure I read that right. Company comes in and diverts water from a public stream. Company pumps fail and the stream dries up. We should be thankful the company supplies us water 360 days a year, because without them we would have.........

You just don't get it, do you? He's been fishing the stream since your grandmother was learning to ride a bike. It's his to ruin.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Troutbert, that's a great overview of limestone systems. From my understanding there is a lot of much more development and environmental harm on this section of the bushkill. There are multiple quarries, as mentioned sr33 bridge and stream relocation, tons of warehouses and a school that may have been built on top of sinkholes. It seems obvious that the quarry is solely responsible for dewatering this section of creek given the proximity, but I believe there have a number of hydraulic and hydrogeology tests including dye tracer tests and a direct route between the creek and the quarry pit wasn't found. It's easy to say online that the quarry or any industry needs shutdown or they need to do more, ie backup pumps etc. The truth is, for regulators to take those positions there, needs to be reputable data behind their position so it is defensible if it is challenged in court.

There are limestone systems in Pa thought to hold water for thousands of years, others less than a day from surface infiltration to discharge. There have been pollution cases involving sinkholes where contaminants showed up miles away from the sinkhole where they were deposited etc.

The takeway imo is that we do not have a full understanding of impacts from most types of development on top of karst geology and and that we should be cautious when altering aquifer levels and excavating more than a few feet in these sensitive watersheds.

 

[JeffK]

The quarry doesn't pump water to keep the creek flowing; it pumps water to keep the quarry dry. The creek is just the conduit for that water.

For a view of what may happen when the quarry stops, look at the history of the Friedensville zinc mine in the Saucon Valley. Zinc was mined for 100 years in the Saucon valley and massive pumps were needed to dewater the mines. Saucon Ck flowed into the mines and massive pumps (the biggest pump in the world at one time was in the mine) fed Saucon Ck just as the quarry feeds the Bushkill. Unfortunately, zinc mine waste is toxic stuff and Saucon Ck was dead at the time. The mine closed in the 1980's and Saucon Ck basically vanished as the mine filled back up. Very quickly the Saucon returned to a nice limestone spring creek and wild brown trout appeared all on their own. The state tried to "improve" the stream by stocking rainbows. The stocked fish reduced the wild brown population, stocking then stopped in the trophy trout section and a pretty sweet wild brown fishery developed (PA Fish and Boat Commision site has the reports on this situation). Of course like most Lehigh Valley streams the fishing has slowly degraded IMHO from development, but the Saucon remains a good wild brown fishery in a pretty urban environment.

There was a brief "Golden Age" of Saucon Ck wild brown fishing when the fish had returned but few locals fished since people still remembered it as a a sterile wasteland. Now fishermen have plenty of company there.