This conversation is a great example of just how valuable this web site is to me. The Prince Nymph is a really popular pattern on not only our Pa. waters but most of the other Eastern Waters that i might get to fish someday. I've been tying since i was a youngster but the Prince was one of those that i tried to master and then just gave up and went on to other things , thinking back on why i gave up is almost a carbon copy of what flynoob says , and if i had MKern and Festus to talk to back then i would have probably been able to get it right eventually , MKerns suggestion of folding the biots and wrapping again i can't wait to try and Festus probably has it even more by saying the "Foundation" for the biots has to be right (the same as most wings on dry flies , you gotta have the base , foundation , right for the fly to be right. GREAT EXCHANGE FOLKS , i'm gonna give it one more try and this time thanks to you folks i bet i get it right , flynoob...............pay attention to these folks , they know stufffff and they are willing to share. THANKS