Big Water Woes

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FollowTheBlueLines

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I got into fly fishing at the beginning of this year, and the concept of bluelining is what really drew me in. The majority of the time I spent fishing this year has been on small/skinny Class A/Wild Repro. streams, and I have gotten addicted to finding new places and exploring what's "around this next bend" type of fishing. While I wouldn't consider myself even decent yet, I surprised myself and found a lot more success than I expected to. Also, starting on these types of streams really forced me to pick up some solid casting techniques.

Fast forward to this past weekend -- the girlfriend and I took a trip up to the Catskills for a long weekend of foliage sighting and fishing. Staying near Roscoe, I tried my hand on the Beaverkill multiple times and to sum it up, I was in over my head... With small streams, the structure is predictable, and there are typically only one or two lanes per cross-section of water. I feel like I can navigate this. On the Beaverkill, I did not even know where to begin.

I tried different tactics, times of day, structure/water types, and came up with a big ol' goose egg 2 days in a row before retreating to my beloved blue lines in the area and plucking some brookies and wild browns/bows. I would like to be able to fish these bigger creeks and rivers, and feel I am missing out on a huge part of this sport. Does anyone have any advice for someone in this predicament?
 
Welcome to the Major League of fly fishing. The Catskills humble very experienced fishermen every day.

You had the Beaverkill at low flows and low levels. But you also hit the river at the toughest time of the year in my opinion. Not many hatches that only happen for a few hours each day if they even happen at all. It takes years to even partially understand those rivers. All I can give you for advice is fish it more. You will learn something every time.
 
It was my experience that learning to read water saw the biggest improvements in results on big water. There may be some good videos to help the process.
Advice that worked for me was to make big water smaller . So I started breaking down a 100 ft wide crick as if it 4 - 25 ft wide cricks. Or maybe you would do better with looking at water using a grid system.
Taking the goose egg can be a part of the learning experience but stick with it and results will come.
 
Dear FollowBlueLines,

Follow the advice of Roofin' Trouter and start thinking about reducing the expanse of water in front of you into smaller segments.

Visualize where you caught fish in small streams and look for sections that show the same general characteristics. It could be as simple as fishing a pocket ahead or behind an obstruction in the larger stream. It still creates a current break, and fish will still locate themselves accordingly.

One thing that works when prospecting is doing something that you wouldn't ordinarily do on your home streams. You made no mention of the flies you tried on the Beaverkill, but swinging a brace of wets, a size 6 Chernobyl with a bead head nymph trailer, or chucking a large highly visible to you streamer will get fish to show themselves. You may miss them, but you will learn where the fish were and get better at patterning them as you fish larger water.

You also didn't mention the rod and line weight you were fishing with. Keep in mind that if you try my suggestions above, they are better done on a 9ft 4wt and even a 6wt rod is not out of the range. If you tried to fish with a little willow wisp 2 or 3wt that you use blue lining that might be part of the reason you didn't succeed.

Keep in mind that it's Fall and hatches are rather sparse. Stay at it, one day you'll have that WOW moment and smile!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
I cut my teeth in the Catskills and don't have any substantive advice beyond keep fishing and you'll figure it out. Those streams can be tough, but also rewarding.

Also, the Willow and the Neversink are options that are much smaller than the BK/East Branch/etc up there. I really love the Neversink, feels like a home game if you're accustomed to PA waters.
 
Does the Beaverkill have a good wild trout population or is it mostly stockies?

On many stocked streams of similar size in PA the "big water woes" at this time of year aren't caused so much by fishing technique problems but by a scarcity of trout.
 
My advice to you would be to fish the larger streams the same way you fish small streams. Look for bubble lines, softer currents next to heavy current, boulders etc. Even if you can't see them on the surface, often times there are depressions or pockets where fish will lie. Don't wade straight into the middle of the river as you likely walked by several 'fishy' spots.

When I first started fly fishing, I fished mostly small streams in SEPA. I often times didn't know where to begin like you are describing on larger water. The only way you'll get better at it is trying to fish waters that are new to you. If you head back up to the Catskills, give the Willowemoc a shot too.
 
Watch a stretch of big water for 15 minutes before you get your feet wet. You can even use binoculars to see what's floating on the water, or see spots that herons and kingfishers are interested in. At the very least, you'll see seams and cushions around and upstream/downstream of underwater structure that aren't as easily spotted when you're in the water. You may even be able to target trout along the near shore without wading right through them by mistake.
 
I think what you’re experiencing is common for guys who start out learning on smaller streams. I started out this way too FWIW. I remember just feeling overwhelmed the first time I saw Penns or the LJR. I tried to fish them like a Bass river, because that’s how I was accustomed to fishing streams that size. Find the deepest water you can and toss a streamer through it. Needless to say, that didn’t work. Well anyway. I’d catch a fish or two, but there was no rhyme or reason to it, and guys around me seemed to be doing much better nymphing or fishing dries.

There’s advantages and disadvantages to starting out on smaller streams vs larger streams as they do require some different techniques and approaches. No right or wrong way though.

On small streams, it’s all about stealth and not spooking the fish. Where the fish are, or likely are, is generally pretty obvious on small streams. And you learn a lot of different casting techniques fairly quickly, in order to get your fly into tough spots without spooking the hole, but you’re generally not casting any great distances and line management after you’ve casted generally isn’t much of an issue.

On larger streams, you have plenty of room to cast, so learning a bunch of “trick” casts for tights spots isn’t really required. You’ll also learn mending and line management much quicker, because you’re making longer casts, and well, you have to learn those things. It’s generally harder to tell where fish will exactly be, but the more you do it, you’ll start to figure it out and know what to look for. Hint: Depending on the time of year and flow conditions, you may not always be looking for the exact same types of water/lies.

I’m still to this day much more comfortable on smaller streams, but, you learn as you go, and while I’m no expert, I can generally regularly catch fish on our larger wild Trout streams in PA too. Don’t worry about it, just go out there and do it. You’ll learn and improve as you go. The larger streams are fun to explore for the first time too.
 
Thanks to everyone for the responses, it is greatly appreciated and the info will definitely be put to use. Not sure when the next time I'll be back up to the Catskills (live in SEPA) but I am definitely excited to get out on some of our larger streams here in PA. Cheers!
 
Some great advice here, from previous posts.

No matter which of "larger" creeks & rivers you fish,
def important to establish mindset u will benefit from multiple access locations.

If u " walk in"...and do not see a section of water that looks "very soft & flat" along the shoreline...then move on to the next access location.

When u do find those " soft/ flat" sections...
Work upstream & Dead drift nymph those areas.
 
BruceC2C said:
Some great advice here, from previous posts.

No matter which of "larger" creeks & rivers you fish,
def important to establish mindset u will benefit from multiple access locations.

If u " walk in"...and do not see a section of water that looks "very soft & flat" along the shoreline...then move on to the next access location.

When u do find those " soft/ flat" sections...
Work upstream & Dead drift nymph those areas.
Click to expand...
Totally disagree. Too many fisherman waste so much time in flat water. If the fish aren't visibily feeding, or aren't chasing streamers well, or some other extraordinary circumstances, stay the heck out of featureless water, even if it's deep. Yo

Start with the most obvious structure. Runs with a defined trench and seam, riffles dumping into pools with a defined bubble line/seam, physical structure like rocks, undercut or steap banks with some current just off of them. etc. Etc.

Cherry pick your spots and then expand from there. You want to start where you gave the best chance at fishing over the most fish. Once you figure out what works, then you can test the bong water and see if anyone's home. Finding the places that look like what you'd fish on a small stream works. Especially in pocket water or otherwise rocky areas. Just expect to need longer drifts and get deeper than you would in a small stream.

I see the same crap with deer hunters, they hunt the spots they want the deer to be, not the places they actually are.
 
PennKev said:
I see the same crap with deer hunters, they hunt the spots they want the deer to be, not the places they actually are.
Click to expand...
All of this I agree with, but really this part. A lot of times, fish are just in weird places. I can not tell you how many times I have spooked big fish out of weird places when I was a bit more naive to this fact. They are opportunistic and they follow patterns we simply can not see. They are also random, and end up in small pockets close to shore that seem unlikely.

On big water, fish to the fish you know are there, and then fish to the fish you think are there.
 
Broodstock said:
All of this I agree with, but really this part. A lot of times, fish are just in weird places. I can not tell you how many times I have spooked big fish out of weird places when I was a bit more naive to this fact. They are opportunistic and they follow patterns we simply can not see. They are also random, and end up in small pockets close to shore that seem unlikely.

On big water, fish to the fish you know are there, and then fish to the fish you think are there.
Click to expand...
Penns is a perfect example. Take the hole right at Poe Paddy. Huge hole with nice riffle at head. Nice seam where Poe runs in. Decent head of pool. Where are this fish often? Why? Look inches deep under the trees. That is where the bugs drift to and where they can expend almost no energy. It's not just during the late evening hatch that they are there. Having said that, its not easy fishing there. Which may be why they are there!!
 
Please see the thread I just posted that references the title of this thread.
 
Fly-Swatter said:
Please see the thread I just posted that references the title of this thread.
Click to expand...
Fly-Swatter

Thread 'Watch this to address "Big Water Woes" and other threads'

Fly Fishing for Trout with Gary Borger​


Note: This link starts at 8:00 and discusses trout lies. Start from the beginning if you want to learn the basics of trout stream insects.

I have the VHS tape and watched it many times. All beginner trout fly fishers should too! 😉
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One could always be a dry fly snob like me.
I prefer to read rises instead of water.
Its simpler and more fun IMO.

I do prefer to fish larger water whenever I'm out.
Its almost always gonna be more productive.
Bigger water = bigger fish, is still usually true.
Of course, over the long hot summer, larger streams are likely to be warm - except for out best tail waters.
And I pretty much do my blue lining over the summer
 
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