Another Reason Coal Must Go...

[FarmerDave]

troutbert wrote:
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EPA Pollutes River, Fails To Notify New Mexico

BY JOHN MERLINE

08/07/2015 12:33 PM ET

Imagine if a business dumped a million gallons of mine waste into Animas River in Colorado, turning it into what looked like Tang, forcing the sheriff's office to close the river to recreational users, and prompting the EPA to warn farmers to shut off water intakes along the river.

Oh, and imagine that the business also failed to warn officials in downstream New Mexico about the spill.

Such a calamity would probably lead the nightly news, with calls from environmentalists and the EPA for investigations, fines, lawsuits, and tougher pollution controls.

Except in this case it's the EPA itself that is to blame.
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That's from the website of Investors Business Daily, which is a prominent investment publication that's been around a long time.

Eeeeeh, try again.

First sentence identifies it as mine waste. Where do you suppose mine waste comes from?

And who is John Merline? Should I just assume that he is a legitimate or at least semi-ligitimate news source, or just another blogger.

I asked for three, and they won't count unless you also provide a link.

You have had over a day. Just admit you were wrong.

Your time would be better served investigating potential future disasters, but no, you prefer calling out the bloggers.

 

[barbless]

fwiw, John Merline is the Washington bureau chief at Investor's Business Daily. Also a contributor to Slate magazine and the Weekly Standard.

From what I've read of him, the sort of spin in that excerpt is his stock in trade.

Unfortunately, contrary to rational expectations, it's abundantly clear that many people who read articles like that one are simply triggering on the initials "EPA" to suit their preconceptions of the villainy of the agency. The concept that the waste problem pre-existed EPA/ER LLC presence, and that it would continue in perpetuity if unremediated, is evidently requires too much thinking for them unless it's explicitly stated. And Merline's taking advantage of that fact with his attempt to draw a straight-line analogy between accidents by those who have generated the toxic wastes (like the spills in the Kalamazoo River and the Kanawha River in West Virginia) and accidents related to the Federal government trying to clean up particularly nasty messes that they had nothing to do with creating.

Some people are also arguing that EPA should have left well enough alone in relation to the Gold King mine. My impression is that EPA knows full well that they can't even begin to address every mine waste issue, and they chose to attempt to remediate the Cement Creek/Animas River watershed because it has considerable value as a water supply for humans and livestock. It's only considered a supplemental source as a drinking water supply for humans in the Durango area at present, but it's an important supplemental source, and one that could become more important as time goes by.

 

[troutbert]

barbless wrote:
"Many dams were built inside the mine to hold back water. Billions of gallons. You can't hold it all back forever in a place like that. It gunna find a way out."

I agree. The challenges associated with lessening the harm from this sort of waste are huge. I think we're fortunate that more accidental breaches and toxic releases like this one haven't happened. Meanwhile, there's a steady, unrelenting drip, drip, drip of toxic waste into the watersheds. It's a very tough situation.

Good points, and this raises the question of whether this event actually increased the total amount of pollution entering the rivers in say a year's time, or just changed the TIMING of the flow of polluted water.

 

[barbless]

"..."That water (from the three other mines) that is still coming out of these mines is loaded with dissolved metals. Even though the river now looks clear, it is loaded," said Bruce Stover, director of Colorado's abandoned mines reclamation program, who has worked on problems with old mines for 30 years.

"These mines are draining as we speak. We had a disaster last week — a surging amount of water coming out. That same amount of water is coming out over six months and harming the Animas. That water is coming out 24/7," Stover said, adding there are 29 other leaking old mines in the Silverton area.

"The discharge of all those mines is continuing. Unless the EPA, locals and state work on the problem, there will not be any solution to what is happening on the Animas," Stover said..." http://www.denverpost.com/environment/ci_28624471/animas-river-spill-gold-king-mine-one-many-area-releasing-heavy

Also, some very detailed reporting here http://www.denverpost.com/environment/ci_28647978/colorado-faces-230-mines-leaking-heavy-metals-into?source=most_viewed

and this http://www.denverpost.com/ci_28646037?obref=obinsite

 

[FarmerDave]

Yep barbless. People are stupid. I don't expect every article on this to be a history lesson. But the info is there regardless of motivation. And for the record, I wasn't trying to defend the guy.

troutbert wrote:

barbless wrote:
"Many dams were built inside the mine to hold back water. Billions of gallons. You can't hold it all back forever in a place like that. It gunna find a way out."

I agree. The challenges associated with lessening the harm from this sort of waste are huge. I think we're fortunate that more accidental breaches and toxic releases like this one haven't happened. Meanwhile, there's a steady, unrelenting drip, drip, drip of toxic waste into the watersheds. It's a very tough situation.

Good points, and this raises the question of whether this event actually increased the total amount of pollution entering the rivers in say a year's time, or just changed the TIMING of the flow of polluted water.

Troutbert, I fail to see the importance of that other than for curiosity sake. EPA is not likely to fine themselves.

Hard to tell. But based on the erosion it is likely an overall increase in tonnage compared to if it wasn't dammed in the first place. But overall effect? Hard to tell. Could be less.

But if the just dam it up again, they will be back to square one until if fills up again. Hopefully they will handle it differently (better) and thus reduce future contamination.

Ironically, the cost of remediation of all those mines in that area will likely exceed the value taken out of those mines.

I read that in an article written before this event.

 

[Chaz]

barbless wrote:
fwiw, John Merline is the Washington bureau chief at Investor's Business Daily. Also a contributor to Slate magazine and the Weekly Standard.

From what I've read of him, the sort of spin in that excerpt is his stock in trade.

Unfortunately, contrary to rational expectations, it's abundantly clear that many people who read articles like that one are simply triggering on the initials "EPA" to suit their preconceptions of the villainy of the agency. The concept that the waste problem pre-existed EPA/ER LLC presence, and that it would continue in perpetuity if unremediated, is evidently requires too much thinking for them unless it's explicitly stated. And Merline's taking advantage of that fact with his attempt to draw a straight-line analogy between accidents by those who have generated the toxic wastes (like the spills in the Kalamazoo River and the Kanawha River in West Virginia) and accidents related to the Federal government trying to clean up particularly nasty messes that they had nothing to do with creating.

Some people are also arguing that EPA should have left well enough alone in relation to the Gold King mine. My impression is that EPA knows full well that they can't even begin to address every mine waste issue, and they chose to attempt to remediate the Cement Creek/Animas River watershed because it has considerable value as a water supply for humans and livestock. It's only considered a supplemental source as a drinking water supply for humans in the Durango area at present, but it's an important supplemental source, and one that could become more important as time goes by.

Excellent points which nothing I've read about this spill has even remotely mentioned.