Allenberry - Access Updated: 19 Dec 16

[Dave_W]

As you know, the Allenberry resort was recently sold. The topic was discussed in a previous thread.

Currently, anglers may access the property to fish. However, starting on Sep 5th, the resort will be closed to public access as rehabilitation work will be underway. Anglers can continue to fish the Breeches reg water but will have to park at The Run and access from the upper end. If you fish your way down to the dam, you can still cross over to the resort side of the stream but should remain at the stream's edge. Please don't walk up into the pavilion or meadow area.

Access to the museum is unknown at this point. If I hear anything about the museum, I'll post it.

 

[CastingAcross]

Thanks for the update. I imagine that everyone is interested in how this is going to play out.

 

[Dave_W]

Unfortunately, it appears that access to both sides of the stream has been closed off this week. I'm hearing this second hand, but from a reliable source.

Anyway, just an FYI if you're planning to fish the reg section of Breeches. Please post here if you have additional info or can shed further light on the situation.

Will keep you posted if I hear more.

 

[tomitrout]

This was just posted a short time ago on the Allenberry facebook page. Sounds like a temporary restriction and CVTU is currently looking into it...

Allenberry Resort was recently inspected by our insurance provider and they have mandated that we post the south side of the Yellow Breeches Creek restricting public access. You will notice the signage being posted this week.
We are currently working, with our insurance provider, on a Hold Harmless Agreement to ensure that everyone involved is protected and covered.
This is temporary and we will keep you posted as the situation progresses. We want to thank you all for bearing with us and for your understanding during this process.

 

[Dave_W]

Good news. Thanks for the update Tomitrout.

 

[CastingAcross]

The CVTU email said it very well: there is still a lot of the Breeches that can be fished.

 

[afishinado]

It appears the new owners are FFing friendly and actually see flyfishers as an important part of their business in the future. I would guess they will do all they can to open the area back up asap.

http://www.pennlive.com/life/2016/07/allenberry_resort_new_owners.html

From the link above:
"We have some pretty major plans to change the main facility to get you the view of the creek, which is really where people want to see," Kennedy said. "Bringing back some of the things that used to be really prominent here is the plan."

The Yellow Breeches is a destination for fly fishing in particular, with a reputation nationwide for hobbyists. "To really start to cater to that, that's going to be a big cornerstone for the new evolution of what this is going to be at the resort," he continued.

The building plans will also include an outdoor amphitheater near the creek, which will dovetail into the resort's dedication to arts and performance

It looks like they are planning to build an outdoor amphitheater close to the stream in the area of where the tennis courts now occupy.

I wish them all the luck in the world and we should support their efforts.

 

[TigerTrout4wt]

I had a chance to be on the water friday and talk to workers of TCO. The guide told me that access to fishing this water is ok kinda... The new owner seems to understand how important it is to keep this open was stated to me. It is a grey area though. In all reality you are not aloud to access it. But and this is the kicker the new owner should not say a word to you if he sees you on the stream. If you would fish here I would stay in the water and be very respectful. If anyone at all would tell you to leave do not argue please. As of Friday when I was there not one sign was up stating that you don't have access yet. No one said a word about me being there as well. I don't know if they will put a posted sign up or not. I don't know how well people will feel about fising there because of this. This is also what I was told by someone 2nd hand. I didnt speak to the owner himself. Please don't think that I also gave you the ok to fish there. If for any reason this is inaccurate he has every right to press trespassing charges. So if you do decide to fish it, we'll it would be at your own risk.

 

[tomitrout]

In all reality you are not aloud to access it.

So, basically what you're saying is that you know it's been posted, and yet you trespassed anyway?

I'll reiterate again, that we're, the local trout fishing community, asking everybody to respect the current wishes of the new owners and to please stay off the property until they work things out with their insurance company. There are miles and miles and miles of water to fish along the Breeches beyond the C&R stretch.

Please don't cause unneeded headaches by pushing the access issue at this time.

 

[TigerTrout4wt]

The last Sunday I was on it I had no idea it was posted because they have not put a sign up. But yes Friday I did know. I'm sorry I was taking info second hand and really didn't think much of it. From now on I will stay off it. I'm not trying to make any waves and apologize for not doing the right thing. Looking back on it now I should of used better judgment. I just wanted to state what I was told.

 

[ryansheehan]

I have spent some time on the breeches but not a place I fish a ton. I'm a little confused about the posting. I'm assuming the creek has not been deemed navigable, but it has never been established? There are homes on the opposite side of the creek from the playhouse, does that mean that you can fish that water because they don't own both sides? I'm not looking to push the issue I will not be fishing there until it's resolved, I don't want to be that guy who ruined it for everyone.

 

[Dave_W]

ryansheehan wrote:
I have spent some time on the breeches but not a place I fish a ton. I'm a little confused about the posting. I'm assuming the creek has not been deemed navigable, but it has never been established? There are homes on the opposite side of the creek from the playhouse, does that mean that you can fish that water because they don't own both sides? I'm not looking to push the issue I will not be fishing there until it's resolved, I don't want to be that guy who ruined it for everyone.

To the best of my knowledge, YB has not been deemed navigable by any recent court decisions nor is there any legal action under consideration for this section. Some other sections of YB are posted and this fluctuates a bit from year to year.

Anglers and the PFBC go with the flow and have done very well in keeping most of the stream open to public access. There are many miles of YB to fish and, although I consider the reg section at Allenberry to be special, I suggest that FFers try some other spots. Most of my fishing on YB is outside the reg water.

Allenberry owns property on both sides of the reg section but the exact boundaries are unclear to me. The homes you're referring to are not available for public access.

Again, give it some time folks. Go somewhere else until the resort's insurance matters are resolved.

 

[SteveG]

To play devil's advocate: I wonder what would happen if future access was denied, and by default, removing it from stocking by PFBC and YBA (and no corny privatization stocking). Could we possibly see a wild trout population increase that spills over to the open water? I for one would welcome an outcome like this.

I guess it's pretty obvious I'm very much against "widespread" stocking on a stream's full length that supports wild trout, save for some smaller areas for children or those with disabilities. I think it promotes a complete lack of conservation (both of harvest and stream quality), and a mindset that "they'll just dump more in".

 

[Dave_W]

SteveG wrote:
To play devil's advocate: I wonder what would happen if future access was denied, and by default, removing it from stocking by PFBC and YBA (and no corny privatization stocking). Could we possibly see a wild trout population increase that spills over to the open water? I for one would welcome an outcome like this.

Elimination of trout stocking in the reg section of YB has already been tried.

Wild trout did not magically increase. It was fly fishermen who subsequently howled about the lack of trout and the PFBC resumed stocking.

To be sure, this was over thirty years ago and (in my opinion) there are more wild trout in YB than a generation ago. Perhaps a different outcome might develop today, but the likelyhood of this being tried again is virtually non-existent.

The issue of managing for wild trout, or fingerlings, on YB has been bandied about for decades and efforts to try these have failed (so far).

The bottom line is that there are just too many people who want the stream stocked. The PFBC won't even consider the matter out in the ATW sections due to the inevitable public howl that would ensue if stocking were stopped. We FFers should remember that we're not the only ones who fish this extremely popular stream.

 

[Bamboozle]

The township owns the property at the parking area along the Run, upstream to the stone bridge ON THAT SIDE. Downstream from the bridge the Allenberry Resort owns all of the opposite side of the creek down to the private houses.

On the Allenberry side of the creek, they own almost all of the property except a few parcels between the township property (parking lot) and the resort, which represents about 400 yards of creek. Whether or not those landowners would want you on their “side of the creek” has probably never been an issue because everybody accesses the creek via the trail on the Allenberry property because the opposite side is a steep hill.

Short of being a ******** and trying to stay on the opposite side of the Breeches to fish 400 yards of creek with a high bank right behind you to make a point, the Allenberry parcels are closed until further notice although I guarantee you people are fishing there regardless.

Whether their insurance company will make it financially feasible for the Resort to allow the public to fish there remains to be seen. When I hear the words “hold harmless” agreement I consider the infeasibility of getting “the public” to sign such a document, especially when fishermen access the creek from spots other than the Allenberry Resort property proper.

Unfortunately, if a hold harmless agreement is essential, the likelihood of creating a permit system where non-guests would have to sign in or somehow secure a permit at the Resort is probably unmanageable. It would be a whole lot easier to just post the property and only allow guests to fish there. It would be far from the only spot in the Commonwealth where that situation exists.

Another problem is the Yellow Breeches is an attraction for the resort. If the State stops stocking it because of access, a TON of fishermen will stop fishing there making life easier for the Allenberry Resort. However, the Allenberry will have to stock it to continue to attract guests who want to fish there which will cause a whole other set of issues with people not staying at the Allenberry who won’t respect that.

Any legal challenge based on navigability of the creek to save a MILE of access when there are miles and miles of open water would be moronic. Not to mention there are miles and miles of private owners who allow access now, but would make life miserable in regards to access if a court told them what they could or couldn’t do.

In the meantime, we shall see what happens…

 

[SteveG]

I wasn't suggesting fly fishing only regs at all in my post, I was pointing out that the current program instills a certain mindset in people.

How long had that section gone without any stocking? Water quality 30 years ago isn't near what it is today. Hell, there's more wild trout in the Breeches now than even 10 years.

I am well aware of the local push for pelletheads. Which is why I refuse to support YBA or any group who wants to stock it. People won't learn to conserve until they see the folly of the system.

 

[ryansheehan]

Bamboozle wrote:

Any legal challenge based on navigability of the creek to save a MILE of access when there are miles and miles of open water would be moronic. Not to mention there are miles and miles of private owners who allow access now, but would make life miserable in regards to access if a court told them what they could or couldn’t do.

In the meantime, we shall see what happens…

Thank for the information on the property. However, I don't think clarification of the law is ever moronic, in fact just the opposite, I wish the laws were more clear so everyone WOULD know. If people are not posting property that they legally own because of ambiguous laws that is wrong. To keep everyone in the dark about the law to try and save fishing waters is truly moronic, imho.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

I fished this stream for years and have a lot of great memories growing up. I agree on the quality of the fishing outside of the C&R area, and have argues for years about cessation of stocking along Pine Rd. That said, I just wonder if Allenberry Resort would post the property, whether Donnie Beaver would swoop in for the kill and turn it into the Little J Part Deux? I could see it.

 

[Bamboozle]

Based on the PFBC website, the Yellow Breeches C&R section is .9 miles long.

How does that compare to other "Beaver" properties and would a .9 mile section be worth it to an outfit like the HomeWaters Club

 

[Wild_Trouter]

I don't have the economic analysis on hand for you, but it would be potential revenue on a nationally known stream. I would think that it would interest Beaver and if such a partnership with Allenberry were profitable- Allenberry would consider it too. I'm not certain about the disposition of the property below Allenberry, but for the right price, I am sure Beaver could lease that too. Under that scenario, you are talking about more than a .9 mile stream section. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? You tell me. Either way, I will see you outside the C&R area.