Advice for new PA transplant

[fishingdad88]

Hey there! pretty new to PA and just getting back into fishing in the lehigh valley (bath, bethlehem) area. I come from long island originally so im use to kayak fly fishing with way heavier equipment for striped bass ( though tbh I was mainly a surfcasting afficionado) so this freshwater stuff is pretty much french to me. I figured id drop by here and ask for some advice for a beginner setup for trout locally monocacy, little lehigh (any other spots suggested) in regards to rod length and weight, fly weight size limits for said rod and fly sizes/patterns. I have been reading the keystone fly fishing book but figured id see what the thoughts were here.
Apologize for the stream of conciousness style in advance...so many questions.

So most of the time it seems a 9ft 5wt is suggested and I wondered if that sentiment still holds true? What are the typical limits with that in regards to:

dry flies ( how small of hook size? is there a specific size range I should stay in to cast effectively?)
small streamers (same question is a 5wt suitable to tossing some streamers if so should I stay in a certain size range and avoid weighted or beaded head versions?)
nymphs and beadhead nymphs ( is there a certain size I should stay around and weight I should stay under for tungsten beads?)

Then I wonder if in the long run something like a 4wt with lighter dry flies might be a bit more engaging and fun?
I was looking at the clearwater outfit which seems to be pretty well regarded for not a huge investment.

In regards to whatever size rod is suggested is there some must tie patterns and sizes I should look at to use with that rod for around here?

I really appreciate any advice.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Great thread for getting started with flies:

Thread 'A dozen top flies for PA trout streams'

Mar 2, 2014

(notice I didn't say the dozen top flies...but if I had to select 12 flies, these would be in my box)

After one acquires an 81/2 or 9’ 5 wt rod with matching 5wt floating line and a 71/2’ 3x tapered leader with a spool of 4x and 5x tippet, one can now look at flies.

Sinking flies:

Wooly Bugger – Size 8 in dark olive w/ a black tail is my go-to. Having some black or white ones and a few a little smaller or bigger would be ideal. Fish anytime / anywhere – drift and/or strip.

Hares Ear Nymph – size 10 – 16 w/ and w/o beads. Natural is my favorite...

• afishinado
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Beginner Forum

• 

A 9' 5w is considered the best all around length and weight for a rod for PA. Whether or not a 4 w is something you would be interested in is a personal decision. I never found the need to buy one but many do.

 

[fishingdad88]

Great thread for getting started with flies:

Thread 'A dozen top flies for PA trout streams'

Mar 2, 2014

(notice I didn't say the dozen top flies...but if I had to select 12 flies, these would be in my box)

After one acquires an 81/2 or 9’ 5 wt rod with matching 5wt floating line and a 71/2’ 3x tapered leader with a spool of 4x and 5x tippet, one can now look at flies.

Sinking flies:

Wooly Bugger – Size 8 in dark olive w/ a black tail is my go-to. Having some black or white ones and a few a little smaller or bigger would be ideal. Fish anytime / anywhere – drift and/or strip.

Hares Ear Nymph – size 10 – 16 w/ and w/o beads. Natural is my favorite...

• afishinado
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Beginner Forum

• 

A 9' 5w is considered the best all around length and weight for a rod for PA. Whether or not a 4 w is something you would be interested in is a personal decision. I never found the need to buy one but many do.

Awesome I appreciate it , do you think the 5wt would have an issue with smaller streamers and tungsten weighted nymphs or should I just stick to the patterns in that post? I.e. would the sizes and patterns in that post all be good for a 9ft 5wt?

How do you feel about the clearwater for a 9-5 compared to other options?

Thanks for your advice so far

 

[lycoflyfisher]

A 5wt is more than capable with nymphs and small streamers. That orvis is a fine rod. There are other budget rods that come to mind. TFO and redington classic trout are a few quick ones that come to mind.

 

[Tigereye]

9 ft 5 is great all around rod and if one were to purchase only one rod , that would be my choice

Going to small flies with a 5 weight is not an issue. Tossing large or heavy flies with a lighter weight rod <5 wt does have limitations. Provided you stay away from extremes ie large articulated streamers and overly heavy weighted flies. You should be OK.

I would note that you could do very well for yourself with a 5 wt rod using flies as large as 8 down to the tiniest midges. Also, for most PA streams, insects are usually found in size14 and 16. Streamers about size 10 should cover 90% of your fishing. Good luck.

I fished the Monocacy back in the late 70s during my college days. Neat stream. Need to get back there.

 

[fishingdad88]

9 ft 5 is great all around rod and if one were to purchase only one rod , that would be my choice

Going to small flies with a 5 weight is not an issue. Tossing large or heavy flies with a lighter weight rod <5 wt does have limitations. Provided you stay away from extremes ie large articulated streamers and overly heavy weighted flies. You should be OK.

I would note that you could do very well for yourself with a 5 wt rod using flies as large as 8 down to the tiniest midges. Also, for most PA streams, insects are usually found in size14 and 16. Streamers about size 10 should cover 90% of your fishing. Good luck.

I fished the Monocacy back in the late 70s during my college days. Neat stream. Need to get back there.

if youre ever in the area and want to fish the stream get in touch and we can make a day of it. So stick with 5 wt for now got it. Ill be fine with 14-16 on the 5wt? As far as tungsten bead nymphs is there a certain weight I should stay below (bead size) to be ablet to cast them comfortably on the 5wt? so basically streamers and flies as large as size 8 and down to tiny midges got it. The only remaining question is weight in regards to tungsten bead head nymphs.

 

[Eagle204]

I recently got a new rod and went with the Clearwater 8'6" in a 4wt. I have a 6/7 Cortland that I learned on and can use in case I want to cast anything heavy, but from what I understand, the 4wt will be ok with things like bucktail streamers and go all the way down to small dries. As others said, the 5wt is a good all around rod, but in my situation, I wanted to make a bigger jump from my 6/7. I went with the 8'6" because I like stream fishing and in my area, things can get tight. It's only 6" shorter than the rod you asked about, but that was my thinking.

Regarding the Clearwater, what I liked when I tried it out was that it felt delicate enough that I could cast small dries, but was stiff enough that I could cast into the wind (I tried it out twice, and once was into a decent headwind.) Keep in mind that I've only had it for a little over a week, but those were my impressions.

 

[Tigereye]

Your typical tungsten bead nymph, even in the largest sizes is less than 4.5 mm. Usually in the 2 to 3 mm range. Again no problem with the 5 weight.

Those who go the Euro or Czech style nymphing use weighted flies in this range routinely with 2 and 3 weight rods. The cast is a bit different but still
Worrying about casting typical trout size weighted flies, light or small, with a 5 wt is really un warranted

As for what size/weight you should use is highly dependent on the water depth and speed. Tough to give a hard fast rule as to size. Experience will teach you swiftly what your set up should be. Especially if you fish the same streams routinely. The learning curve is pretty quick.

My usual tactic is to start with 2.8mm bead. If I'm not getting down I go up to 3.0 or 3.2mm. If I'm too heavy I go down to a 2.4 or 2.0mm. Once I get the depth dialed in, then I start playing with fly size. Usually starting with a 14 and going down in size. Rarely up unless there are alot of large flies active ie stone flies, drakes etc. Lastly do I tinker with fly type. A frenchie, walts worm, rainbow warrior, or peacock perdigon seldom fail.

Biggest concern when using weight is to keep an open loop when casting to prevent weight/fly from hitting rod. That is a recipe for a broken rod.

 

[fishingdad88]

I recently got a new rod and went with the Clearwater 8'6" in a 4wt. I have a 6/7 Cortland that I learned on and can use in case I want to cast anything heavy, but from what I understand, the 4wt will be ok with things like bucktail streamers and go all the way down to small dries. As others said, the 5wt is a good all around rod, but in my situation, I wanted to make a bigger jump from my 6/7. I went with the 8'6" because I like stream fishing and in my area, things can get tight. It's only 6" shorter than the rod you asked about, but that was my thinking.

Regarding the Clearwater, what I liked when I tried it out was that it felt delicate enough that I could cast small dries, but was stiff enough that I could cast into the wind (I tried it out twice, and once was into a decent headwind.) Keep in mind that I've only had it for a little over a week, but those were my impressions.

understood sounds great, yeah I was just a little concerned about the heavier nymphs and pattern sizes regarding a 5wt but from what ive seen the rivers and streams arent huge around here, so The 5wt at 9 ft will prob work pretty well.

 

[fishingdad88]

Your typical tungsten bead nymph, even in the largest sizes is less than 4.5 mm. Usually in the 2 to 3 mm range. Again no problem with the 5 weight.

Those who go the Euro or Czech style nymphing use weighted flies in this range routinely with 2 and 3 weight rods. The cast is a bit different but still
Worrying about casting typical trout size weighted flies, light or small, with a 5 wt is really un warranted

As for what size/weight you should use is highly dependent on the water depth and speed. Tough to give a hard fast rule as to size. Experience will teach you swiftly what your set up should be. Especially if you fish the same streams routinely. The learning curve is pretty quick.

My usual tactic is to start with 2.8mm bead. If I'm not getting down I go up to 3.0 or 3.2mm. If I'm too heavy I go down to a 2.4 or 2.0mm. Once I get the depth dialed in, then I start playing with fly size. Usually starting with a 14 and going down in size. Rarely up unless there are alot of large flies active ie stone flies, drakes etc. Lastly do I tinker with fly type. A frenchie, walts worm, rainbow warrior, or peacock perdigon seldom fail.

Biggest concern when using weight is to keep an open loop when casting to prevent weight/fly from hitting rod. That is a recipe for a broken rod.

Understood il probably start with just dry flies and soft hackle wet flies (the north country looking stuff) to practice learning casting again and maybe unweighted nymphs ( its been a very long time) il try like you said to start with 14 as a minimum and work smaller not larger. Maybe in the beginning ill skip the sinking patterns that use weight just until ive learned to not smack the rod. Are there any other dry/soft hackle wet or other unweighted wet patterns aside fromt that list above you suggest I get into tying?

will skipping the weighted bead head stuff for the time being be super limiting in your opinion or there would be enough variety and opportunity with dries/ unweighted wet stuff and nymphs to get going?

 

[JimNovo]

If you are going to be using a 9ft 5wt rod, I don’t see any reason you can’t nymph with beaded size 12-20 nymphs. It’s not like you will be false casting a lot since you are nymphing. I do this with a 4wt rod.

 

[Tigereye]

Are there any other dry/soft hackle wet or other unweighted wet patterns aside fromt that list above you suggest I get into tying?

will skipping the weighted bead head stuff for the time being be super limiting in your opinion or there would be enough variety and opportunity with dries/ unweighted wet stuff and nymphs to get goingoo?
[/QUOTE]

I'd start with a search for a hatch chart for the 2 or 3 streams you plan to fish most often. If they are local Lehigh Valley streams you will most likely find alot of redundancy. Next pick flies hatching April thru June. Unless you are a die hard that's when you will be doing most of your fishing. Worry about fall and winter fishing once you get a good base.

Search the board here, there are a ton of threads regarding most popular flies. Don't get hung up on too many. You want to be fishing not second guessing yourself. You could probably get away with half dozen patterns of dry, nymph and wet fly plus 1 or 2 streamers.

 

[JimNovo]

will skipping the weighted bead head stuff for the time being be super limiting in your opinion or there would be enough variety and opportunity with dries/ unweighted wet stuff and nymphs to get going?

With it being mid October I think your dry fly opportunities are “drying up” 😆. If you plan to fish over the next few months you may want to reconsider your avoidance of beaded nymph plans.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Understood il probably start with just dry flies and soft hackle wet flies (the north country looking stuff) to practice learning casting again and maybe unweighted nymphs ( its been a very long time) il try like you said to start with 14 as a minimum and work smaller not larger. Maybe in the beginning ill skip the sinking patterns that use weight just until ive learned to not smack the rod. Are there any other dry/soft hackle wet or other unweighted wet patterns aside fromt that list above you suggest I get into tying?

will skipping the weighted bead head stuff for the time being be super limiting in your opinion or there would be enough variety and opportunity with dries/ unweighted wet stuff and nymphs to get going?

I tie 80% of my nymphs completely weightless and 90% beadless. I use split shot most of the time below the flies (dropshot) but also above them and between them on 2 fly rigs as well. Yes it's an antiquated method according to most but it works for me and I enjoy fishing that way. I completely hate the sight of a beadhead nymph and I only use them on droppers in a dry dropper system.

 

[Bamboozle]

....some advice for a beginner setup for trout locally monocacy, little lehigh (any other spots suggested) in regards to rod length and weight, fly weight size limits for said rod and fly sizes/patterns...

fishingdad88:

A couple of things from someone who has fished the aforementioned streams regularly for decades...

It's certainly not gospel and I have more rods than brains, but if you bumped into me on the Monocasy, Little Lehigh or other Lehigh Valley streams I would almost exclusively be fishing an 8'0" to 8'6" rod.

I'm not saying a 9'0" rod is too long and you shouldn't own one, but there are spots on those streams where a low hanging branch or narrow spot makes something shorter work better.

As far as line weight goes, depending on the fly size I expect to cast, I've fished everything from a 2wt to a 7wt however IMHO, a 5wt or 4wt is perfect.

Regarding flies; after a zillion years of fishing the area, I can say with confidence I could get by with just the flies listed below because with only a few, I catch almost 100% of my fish. It looks like a long list but basically it comes down to olives, sulphurs, midges, terrestrial insects, a few attractor nymphs & soft hackle flies and one streamer pattern.

I also added the time of year these flies are important IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY. I should add a cavet that even though I like to propect with a beetle or other dry flies during the warmer months, at the colder times of year when surface activity is almost non-existant, I'll propect with attractor wet fly patterns...

However IF I see a rising fish, I'll switch to an olive, midge or even a beetle and see what happens. 😉

The flies that reap me the most reward are marked in bold:

Blue Winged Olive (dry fly) - Size 18 & 20 - (Anytime of year)​

Imitation of a "Sulphur" dun (dry fly) - Size 16 - (Mid May to early June)​

Imitation of a "Sulphur emerger (dry-ish fly) - Size 16 - (Mid May to early June)​

Tricorythodes or "Trico Spinner - Size 22 & 24 - (Mid to late July until first frost)​

Foam Beetle (dry fly) - Size 16 - (spring - fall but I have caught fish in January on a beetle)​

Fur Bodied Ant (dry fly) - Size 20 - (summer & fall)​

Letort Cricket (dry fly) - Size 16 (spring - fall)​

Elk Wing Caddis - All Black (dry fly) - Size 18 - 20 (May - July)​

Elk Wing Caddis - Tan (dry fly) - Size 16 -18 (Early spring to fall)​

Griffith's Gnat (dry fly) - Size 20 - 24 - (Anytime of year)​

Basic Midge (dry fly) - Sizes 24 - 30 - (Anytime of year)​

Midge Pupa or nymph (wet fly) - Sizes 22 - 32 - (Anytime of year)​

Bead Head - Prince Nymph (wet fly) - Sizes 12 - 18 - (Anytime of year)​

Bead Head/Flash Back - Hare's Ear Nymph (wet fly) - Size 12 - 18 - (Anytime of year)​

Hare's Ear Soft Hackle (wet fly) - Size 12 - 14 - (Anytime of year)​

Partridge & Peacock Soft Hackle - Size 12 -14 - (Anytime of year)​

Snipe & Purple or Starling & Purple Soft Hackle (wet fly) - Size 16 & 18 - (Anytime of year)​

Woolly Bugger - olive & black, olive, and all black (streamer) - Size 12 - 6 (Anytime of year)​

​

Good luck and good fishing!!

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Don't rule out bassing (including stripers) in the Delaware. When the juvenile shad head back to the ocean in the fall, stripers intercept them. That can produce some memorable fishing.

 

[fishingdad88]

fishingdad88:

A couple of things from someone who has fished the aforementioned streams regularly for decades...

It's certainly not gospel and I have more rods than brains, but if you bumped into me on the Monocasy, Little Lehigh or other Lehigh Valley streams I would almost exclusively be fishing an 8'0" to 8'6" rod.

I'm not saying a 9'0" rod is too long and you shouldn't own one, but there are spots on those streams where a low hanging branch or narrow spot makes something shorter work better.

As far as line weight goes, depending on the fly size I expect to cast, I've fished everything from a 2wt to a 7wt however IMHO, a 5wt or 4wt is perfect.

Regarding flies; after a zillion years of fishing the area, I can say with confidence I could get by with just the flies listed below because with only a few, I catch almost 100% of my fish. It looks like a long list but basically it comes down to olives, sulphurs, midges, terrestrial insects, a few attractor nymphs & soft hackle flies and one streamer pattern.

I also added the time of year these flies are important IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY. I should add a cavet that even though I like to propect with a beetle or other dry flies during the warmer months, at the colder times of year when surface activity is almost non-existant, I'll propect with attractor wet fly patterns...

However IF I see a rising fish, I'll switch to an olive, midge or even a beetle and see what happens. 😉

The flies that reap me the most reward are marked in bold:

Blue Winged Olive (dry fly) - Size 18 & 20 - (Anytime of year)​

Imitation of a "Sulphur" dun (dry fly) - Size 16 - (Mid May to early June)​

Imitation of a "Sulphur emerger (dry-ish fly) - Size 16 - (Mid May to early June)​

Tricorythodes or "Trico Spinner - Size 22 & 24 - (Mid to late July until first frost)​

Foam Beetle (dry fly) - Size 16 - (spring - fall but I have caught fish in January on a beetle)​

Fur Bodied Ant (dry fly) - Size 20 - (summer & fall)​

Letort Cricket (dry fly) - Size 16 (spring - fall)​

Elk Wing Caddis - All Black (dry fly) - Size 18 - 20 (May - July)​

Elk Wing Caddis - Tan (dry fly) - Size 16 -18 (Early spring to fall)​

Griffith's Gnat (dry fly) - Size 20 - 24 - (Anytime of year)​

Basic Midge (dry fly) - Sizes 24 - 30 - (Anytime of year)​

Midge Pupa or nymph (wet fly) - Sizes 22 - 32 - (Anytime of year)​

Bead Head - Prince Nymph (wet fly) - Sizes 12 - 18 - (Anytime of year)​

Bead Head/Flash Back - Hare's Ear Nymph (wet fly) - Size 12 - 18 - (Anytime of year)​

Hare's Ear Soft Hackle (wet fly) - Size 12 - 14 - (Anytime of year)​

Partridge & Peacock Soft Hackle - Size 12 -14 - (Anytime of year)​

Snipe & Purple or Starling & Purple Soft Hackle (wet fly) - Size 16 & 18 - (Anytime of year)​

Woolly Bugger - olive & black, olive, and all black (streamer) - Size 12 - 6 (Anytime of year)​

​

Good luck and good fishing!!

I really really appreciate this, hopefully one day we will cross paths out there, would you suggest I got with an 8 or 8,6 then 5tw im guessing still would be the go to ? Is there any models you are fond of that arent crazy expensive in an 8 or 8,6 4 or 5wt? ill start making up flies of all of those patterns asap.

 

[fishingdad88]

Don't rule out bassing (including stripers) in the Delaware. When the juvenile shad head back to the ocean in the fall, stripers intercept them. That can produce some memorable fishing.

Would an 8- 8,6 5 wt be a decent idea for bass in the delaware?

 

[Tups]

https://www.amazon.com/Tying-James-Told-Hidy-Leisenring/dp/B00KFLWJEY

 

[Tups]

I am not suggesting you spend $200. On this classic, “the Art of Tying the Wet Fly” but if you search Jim Leisinring you will find his fly patterns. He was an old timer who fished the Lehigh Valley and Pocono streams, and wrote the book on it.