Youth trout derbys - opinions

[Fly-Swatter]

This is a new thread based on the "Possible new regs..." thread (to avoid hijacking that thread). One post said Kids derbys on class A streams is OK. If I misread that, I apologize.

I'm curious to learn what board members think of kids trout derbys.

Most of us seem to dislike stocking over wild trout, especially in Class A streams. That doesn't seem to be a gray area. Either we condone this or we don't.

My opinion is that I don't like them. While we certainly want to encourage new/young angler participation, dumping hundreds of adult trout raised on pellets in raceways into a small stream or pond gives kids a skewed perspective on how fishing really works. And, it seeds the addiction to stocking that may manifest as stocking club stocking over Class A streams.

Youth mentoring (formal or informal), especially by parents is better. There are panfish everywhere in our state. Kids don't care what they catch ad long as it's cold, wet and wiggling. We lay those expectations on them (trout are better than panfish, for example). And, we should be focusing on helping young people appreciate the nature. Catching fish is one facet of this, IMO.

I may be myopic, but this should not be a divisive issue for those who support resource first practices and wild trout proliferation.

 

[larkmark]

Dump them in a pond or some dammed up section of a warm water creek. They don't belong in a wild trout stream. I am all for trout derbies. Loads of fun for kids. I love watching and helping.

 

[Dave_W]

There has been a youth trout derby on Letort since the 1950s (this is long before the Class A concept was introduced) that continues to this day.

While I wouldn't support establishing new trout derbies on Class A streams today, older established derbies that have a long tradition in a community can be grandfathered in my view. In the case of Letort, the sections downstream of this derby have seen a dramatic increase in wild trout population in recent years. No evidence exists that this derby has had a negative impact on the wild trout in the system.
Sure, a few stockies spread out of the park where the derby is held but they aren't many. I've participated in youth projects and learning events in the park that are conducted in the same section as the derby. Kids love it. (Note: CVTU requested years ago that only RT and ST be used int he derby as Letort is a BT stream).

I'm interested in how our readers feel about derbies. With regard to the situation on Letort that I'm familiar with, I remain in support of the kid's derby.

 

[afishinado]

Dave_W wrote:
There has been a youth trout derby on Letort since the 1950s (this is long before the Class A concept was introduced) that continues to this day.

While I wouldn't support establishing new trout derbies on Class A streams today, older established derbies that have a long tradition in a community can be grandfathered in my view. In the case of Letort, the sections downstream of this derby have seen a dramatic increase in wild trout population in recent years. No evidence exists that this derby has had a negative impact on the wild trout in the system.
Sure, a few stockies spread out of the park where the derby is held but they aren't many. I've participated in youth projects and learning events in the park that are conducted in the same section as the derby. Kids love it. (Note: CVTU requested years ago that only RT and ST be used int he derby as Letort is a BT stream).

I'm interested in how our readers feel about derbies. With regard to the situation on Letort that I'm familiar with, I remain in support of the kid's derby.

I agree with Dave above.

Rather than worrying about stocking a small area of a Class A for few youth fishing derbies, I believe rescinding the reg allowing the stocking of Class A's here would be more a step in the right direction.

 

[Swattie87]

Agree with the above responses. Kids fishing derbies are a relatively small to “fish to fry” in the overall stocking over wild Trout debate. Where there are other nearby reasonable options to hold them without, or with less wild Trout present, that could be explored, but it’s not really that big of a problem. Many are quickly caught, and the leftovers get caught quickly by adults scavenging in the days after the derby.

Though not a genuine representation of wild Trout fishing, derbies serve as a gateway for kids to get into Trout angling. Most adult Trout anglers weren’t hiked 3 or 4 miles in to the woods to fish for Brookies, or handed a fly rod during a bug soup hatch on Penns and told to figure it out for their first Trout fishing experience at age 5.

For most, Trout angling is a path through different methods and experiences over time. For some, the journey only progresses so far, and that’s ok. Most on here will agree that FFing for wild Trout is the ultimate enjoyment on that spectrum, but also takes the most patience and skill to attain. I fell hook, line, and sinker for FFing when I first tried it at age 25 or so, but it still took me a year or more (fishing nearly every weekend) until I was reasonably proficient. To where I could cast and manage drifts well enough to have a reasonable chance of catching fish. Kids don’t have that level of patience. Trout derbies are to “hook” them at a young age, and start them on their fishing path, and it’s ok for that to be done via a somewhat unrealistic experience versus actual wild Trout angling. Kids don’t watch Law and Order as kids, they watch Sesame Street. And that’s ok, they’re kids.

 

[Baron]

Wouldn't park ponds and local small lakes be a better place to have these derbies?

 

[Swattie87]

Probably. From a strictly impact to wild Trout perspective. But there’s more to the logistics of securing access for these kinds of things than that.

 

[Dave_W]

Baron wrote:
Wouldn't park ponds and local small lakes be a better place to have these derbies?

Small sections of streams are typically used for kid's derbies because it allows for the fish to be corralled in a shallow space where the kids can see them. If placed in a larger pond or lake the fish would go deep and be harder to catch as well. Water temp is also an issue. These derbies are often in summertime and putting stocked trout in a pond with water 20 degrees warmer than the hatchery would be a problem.

 

[silverfox]

I'm forcing myself to not launch into some big rant here.

The kids don't want or care about stocked fish. The adults who organize these events do. The kids don't care if it's a Walmart swimming pool in a parking lot, the local community pond or some dammed up polluted ditch. Using "kids" to justify stocking over wild trout is disingenuous and disgusting.

 

[coyoterahn]

I’m all for the kids derbies. Many kids started their trout fishing adventure participating in such derbies. It is a great way to get and/or keep kids interested. For some kids, it may be their only way to get introduced into fishing at all.
Perhaps there is a need to slowly but methodically wean participants off those derbies in class A trout waters. I’d be surprised if acceptable alternatives couldn’t be found in many cases. I think it’s worth exploring.
At the end of the day, it would be shameful to eliminate trout derbies for the kids.

 

[Millsertime]

It doesn't matter if adults are "behind" kids fishing derbies. If the kids catch fish and aren't over pressured by their adult, they will have fun and the key is that if fun is had = a seed is planted for a future fisher person!

 

[silverfox]

Millsertime wrote:
It doesn't matter if adults are "behind" kids fishing derbies. If the kids catch fish and aren't over pressured by their adult, they will have fun and the key is that if fun is had = a seed is planted for a future fisher person!

Couldn't agree more. It just needs to happen in non-Class A wild trout streams. That's all.

 

[SmoothOperator]

silverfox wrote:

Millsertime wrote:
It doesn't matter if adults are "behind" kids fishing derbies. If the kids catch fish and aren't over pressured by their adult, they will have fun and the key is that if fun is had = a seed is planted for a future fisher person!

Couldn't agree more. It just needs to happen in non-Class A wild trout streams. That's all.

I agree....keep the derbies on the put and take streams.... Got to have someway to get the young ones interested in fishing....

 

[Mike]

Having dealt with this issue at the professional level, it is another one of those cases that fits the adage “ if you aren’t prepared to deal with political realities, you aren’t prepared to be a fisheries manager.” The realities here are diverse, but to anyone on the outside looking in, to remove a popular fishing rodeo, usually a few hour affair, from a small portion (in most cases) of a larger stream because it might hurt the other fish in that small area is not going to go down well. When there is a history behind the event, you can pretty much bet that some politician has been involved, is still is involved, or soon will get involved if the PFBC attempts to change or eliminate the event, ESPECIALLY a children’s event. When that happens and if colleagues from around the state report the same thing, programs, such as the Class A system in general can come under threat. It is wise not to cut one’s nose off to spite one’s face.

 

[wildtrout2]

Mike wrote:
Having dealt with this issue at the professional level, it is another one of those cases that fits the adage “ if you aren’t prepared to deal with political realities, you aren’t prepared to be a fisheries manager.” The realities here are diverse, but to anyone on the outside looking in, to remove a popular fishing rodeo, usually a few hour affair, from a small portion (in most cases) of a larger stream because it might hurt the other fish in that small area is not going to go down well. When there is a history behind the event, you can pretty much bet that some politician has been involved, is still is involved, or soon will get involved if the PFBC attempts to change or eliminate the event, ESPECIALLY a children’s event. When that happens and if colleagues from around the state report the same thing, programs, such as the Class A system in general can come under threat. It is wise not to cut one’s nose off to spite one’s face.

Point well taken.

 

[GeneBeam]

Re: Youth trout derbys - opinions
silverfox
I'm forcing myself to not launch into some big rant here.
The kids don't want or care about stocked fish. The adults who organize these events do. The kids don't care if it's a Walmart swimming pool in a parking lot, the local community pond or some dammed up polluted ditch. Using "kids" to justify stocking over wild trout is disingenuous and disgusting.

I agree with you 100% I’m getting tired of this thing of justifying things with, “it for the kids”

 

[Wild_Trouter]

I always loved coming across the rogue Palomino on the Letort at the bottom of the regs area above Letort Park following the derbies. That happened two years in a row and was definitely a weird encounter. Some of the rainbows actually fare quite well in Letort Park and points south to the Connie. Occasionally you can turn up a large well-colored specimen. I wish they would conduct it someplace else (the side run by Children's Lake and the Pool would be a good choice- I believe the water temps would be fine, or the headwaters of Children's Lake. Water is cold and crystal clear there. Could temporarily dam the stream's entry into the lake and stock it). I'm all for the kids but Palis and Bows do not belong in the Letort.

 

[larkmark]

I was involved for many years with a kids fishing derby held at a stocked pond. What fun we all had!. You know I never once thought " Oh this will create a whole new generation of anglers". You know everything isn't about promoting the sport and all that crap. Some of those kids kept fishing and many did not. But they had a day of fun. That is all that matters.
And no I don't really like stocking in good wild trout water for these events but I honestly doubt they do much harm. In the town i grew up in they stock a fairly large class a in one section. It is amazing the number of guys who catch a big holdover a few months later and think it is a wild fish.

 

[CRB]

Kids just want to catch fish give these durbies warm water fish.
Best thing for license sales was/is covid 19.

 

[Baron]

Voices of reason usually prevail. We are beginning to polarize in the discussion of this topic. I still think that the only way to make this good-for-all is to have these events in ponds, self-contained lakes or put-and-take streams like so many of the western states do. Hold the events earlier in the year. When the water warms up the remaining stockies die and erase any potential negative affects from the events. I saw this work well in Idaho, CA and UT.

One thing stands out clearly is that mentoring and parenting is not as high on the list for some as it is for others. Fortunately both camps can exist well by moving things around a bit, though it may take time.
There seems to be a side to this that I resist that suggest it to be possible and even practical to return back to the natural way things were. I personally find this a romantic notion, maybe even selfish with a few. There is another side that says fire it up and dump fish everywhere and that is carefree and potentially harmful as well.

One thing is for sure and that is both sides need to stick together through all of this and to hold lawmakers and planners accountable.