Wow, Cost of Top End Rods Really Getting Expensive!

[Letort]

I know the cost of living goes up for most things every year, but looking at Sage, Winston, T&T, etc, its not unusual to see $650+ and a couple pushing a $1,000.

I understand that lesser cost options are available, but just find it interesting that prices seem to be on the rise over the past several years.

 

[PennKev]

There is not $350 difference between a $600 and a $1000 rod.

There is not a $350 difference between a $250 rod and a $600 rod.

And while the price keeps going up, performance has largely plateaued. At the same time, the lower priced stuff has improved in leaps and bounds over the last 10-15 years. The price rang for gear has never been broader, but the difference in performance has never been narrower IMO.

There is so much good gear out there at every price range that everyone should just go and find something they like, and that fits their budget and then go fishing. If that's a $900 rod and $400 reel, fine, go for it. If its a $125 rod and $60 reel, that's fine too. I've fished with both and never thought, "Gee, if I had a $900 rod I would have caught more fish today." And when I've fished with high end gear I may briefly think about how nice the gear is, but only for a minute or two at the most.

 

[greenghost]

Yes! I agree with Penn Kev--there is no reason at all to spend that much on a great rod (and other equipment) these days! Technology has improved sooooo much on lower-priced rods.

However, when you throw good old common sense out of the equation, you are left with things like brand loyalty -- SAGE, Winston, etc., -- high-income target markets, disposable income. Those are the reasons these companies keep raising their prices-- despite the performance not getting all that much better--and getting what they ask.

 

[djs12354]

If you spend it, they will come.

 

[SNJChef]

I agree no need to drop a lot of money. But if you got it like that then have at it.

 

[krayfish2]

If you look back to let's say 1985, you had price points of $20 and maybe $250. Was there a difference between those two? Hell yeah. Components, action and weight. Fast forward to today and the gap has narrowed considerably. Many of the foreign made rods perform almost as well as many high end rods. In some cases, they might even outperform some high end offerings.

Does a Redington CT ($99-$149) meet the needs of most situations in PA? Sure. Based on feel alone, can the average fly caster distinguish between a $200 rod and a $1000 rod if the label is covered? No chance. I'm sure there are rods ranging from $100 - $1000 in just about every spectrum of action.

Where you see the difference is in hardware, quality of finish, label and warranty. TFO in particular have foreign made rods in a variety of actions. The warranty is outstanding ($35 and they replace the rod).

Where I have noticed differences between low end and high end rods is swing weight and durability.

Bottom line, buy what you can afford, in an action you like. No need to sell a kidney just to have the latest / greatest. If you can afford to spend it, nothing wrong with spoiling yourself once in a while. I regularly fish a $59 rod and a $675 rod. Love both. The cheaper one has gotten praise from people I've sent it to.

 

[wbranch]

Andy wrote;

Where you see the difference is in hardware, quality of finish

Exactly! There was a time no more than eight years ago when the top end rods had Bellinger or Struble nickel silver reel seat hardware and gorgeously figured wood inserts. Now even the high end rods (although I'm not sure what Winston is selling) have chrome plated or anodized aluminum reelseat hardware and modest wood spacers.

When I was building custom rods I used to love looking at all the lovely nickel silver Bellinger models. I haven't built a rod in awhile and was very surprised to see that Struble no longer makes any reelseat hardware.

 

[outsider]

greenghost wrote:
Yes! I agree with Penn Kev--there is no reason at all to spend that much on a great rod (and other equipment) these days! Technology has improved sooooo much on lower-priced rods.

However, when you throw good old common sense out of the equation, you are left with things like brand loyalty -- SAGE, Winston, etc., -- high-income target markets, disposable income. Those are the reasons these companies keep raising their prices-- despite the performance not getting all that much better--and getting what they ask.

It's not only about high income/disposable income. People entering fly fishing read or will be lead to believe they need the latest and greatest to give them an advantage.

 

[Sylvaneous]

It is ridiculous. For a fishing rod, not a rifle, that seems to be the 'greatest thing' every 3-5 years. And you know, manufacturers cannot make a $600 rod cast too very well because it will undercut their $800 rods. But based on George Anderson's shoot-outs, the most expensive rods aren't all great rods. Sage and Winston finish pretty far down. Scott and Loomis are at the top with their $800 offerings. I'm glad I got the rods I wanted and continue to like a while ago. I also have a close friend 'in the industry' I'll say, who gets a discount and passes it on to me. I only got 1 rod from him, though. It's still $400.

And the idea of the technology bleeding down-range: Rods have improved, but the lower cost ones haven't improved like I'd have expected, with a few exceptions. The mid-range rods are NOT the previous or previous-previous top models.

If they're selling to people who can throw a grand at a rod alone every 4 years, they're not talking to anyone I know.

Syl

 

[Sylvaneous]

greenghost wrote:
Those are the reasons these companies keep raising their prices-- despite the performance not getting all that much better--and getting what they ask.

Maybe why I keep seeing the G Loomis NRX LP on top of George Anderson's tests over several years.
It was good. It is good and it will remain good (great).

syl

 

[PennKev]

wbranch wrote:
Andy wrote;

Where you see the difference is in hardware, quality of finish

Exactly! There was a time no more than eight years ago when the top end rods had Bellinger or Struble nickel silver reel seat hardware and gorgeously figured wood inserts. Now even the high end rods (although I'm not sure what Winston is selling) have chrome plated or anodized aluminum reelseat hardware and modest wood spacers.

When I was building custom rods I used to love looking at all the lovely nickel silver Bellinger models. I haven't built a rod in awhile and was very surprised to see that Struble no longer makes any reelseat hardware.

Not to derail the topic, but I've come to favor anodized hardware. When I first got into rod building I thought nickel silver was "high end." The reality is that it is heavy and tarnishes almost fast enough to see it happen.

However, I do have a soft spot for pretty inserts in my seats, and for the custom or hobbyist builder, there are plenty of sharp looking wood inserts available. For that matter, I've still seen nice wood inserts on Winston, Scott, and a few others. But i'm thinking of mid to high range models in those brands.

 

[afishinado]

I agree, there are a lot of good modestly priced fly rods out there right now.

The thing I've noticed most often when an angler looks to buy a rod, is their willingness to purchase a rod by price, looks, or by reputation or review. Price is one thing, but I'll bet there are a dozen or more rods to choose from at the price-point they prefer.

When I worked at a shop I would guess that 75% of the rod buyers deline a chance to test-cast the rod, and bought it straight off the rack without ever casting it.....an obligatory shake of the rod was enough for them.

After they buy the rod, and find it isn't what they want or need, they either settle for it and fish it, but most often they look to sell it and continue to look for another rod. This becomes a never ending quest.

Most times one can determine how well a rod rod works for you by test casting. The other side of the coin is, one can make just about any rod work for your fishing. All rod choices are a compromise; what works well at close distances, may fall short on longer casts or vice versa. Finding a rod that works best for the fishing you plan to do is key.

Along with the obligatory shaking of the rod at the rack, I'm sure any one that works or has worked in a fly shop will chuckle when I mention an almost universal thing seen during test casting a rod. The caster peels off 90 feet of line from the reel and tries to huck a cast into the next county. When you ask where they fish and how far they cast when fishing, most will answer smaller streams, 20 or 30' at most.

 

[Nympho]

I just bought a 10'8" 3wt Thomas and Thomas for Czech nymphing and in my opinion it was worth every penny. The Echo 10' 3wt I was using before this doesn't even compare.

 

[bigjohn58]

I build my own rods just because of this. I am currently building 2 Batson Eternity2 fly rods that when completed correctly get reviews very similar to the $950 Sage rods. I think I'll have $250 in each build and they will look 100x better then the Sage rods in the end. These prices on rods scare a lot of people out of the fly fishing game I bet and make people not want to participate. Makes them feel its just for the "upper class".

 

[afishinado]

bigjohn58 wrote:
I build my own rods just because of this. I am currently building 2 Batson Eternity2 fly rods that when completed correctly get reviews very similar to the $950 Sage rods. I think I'll have $250 in each build and they will look 100x better then the Sage rods in the end. These prices on rods scare a lot of people out of the fly fishing game I bet and make people not want to participate. Makes them feel its just for the "upper class".

Fly Rod Choices

This this page alone on Cabelas, you can choose to buy a fly rod priced from $40 - $1400.

If someone tells you they don't want to fly-fish because it's too expensive, chances are they tried it...and couldn't cast worth a damn.

 

[PennKev]

afishinado wrote:
chances are they tried it...and couldn't cast worth a damn.

By the looks of it, that doesn't stop as many people as you'd think.

 

[PennKev]

bigjohn58 wrote:
I build my own rods just because of this. I am currently building 2 Batson Eternity2 fly rods that when completed correctly get reviews very similar to the $950 Sage rods. I think I'll have $250 in each build and they will look 100x better then the Sage rods in the end. These prices on rods scare a lot of people out of the fly fishing game I bet and make people not want to participate. Makes them feel its just for the "upper class".

BUT.. BUT... BUT.... YOU COULDN"T TEST CAST THEM!!!!!

How are they supposed to speak to your soul and become one with your body if you couldn't test cast them????????

( More sarcasm)

 

[bigjohn58]

PennKev wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:
I build my own rods just because of this. I am currently building 2 Batson Eternity2 fly rods that when completed correctly get reviews very similar to the $950 Sage rods. I think I'll have $250 in each build and they will look 100x better then the Sage rods in the end. These prices on rods scare a lot of people out of the fly fishing game I bet and make people not want to participate. Makes them feel its just for the "upper class".

BUT.. BUT... BUT.... YOU COULDN"T TEST CAST THEM!!!!!

How are they supposed to speak to your soul and become one with your body if you couldn't test cast them????????

( More sarcasm)

My soul will speak to the rod with my artistic originality...you'll be jealous of the extra heart and soul my rod has over the others ;-)

 

[wbranch]

PennKev wrote;

When I first got into rod building I thought nickel silver was "high end." The reality is that it is heavy and tarnishes almost fast enough to see it happen.

I think the nickel silver reel seat hardware still is the mark of a high end rod. Whether a client wants that kind of reel seat on his rod is purely a personal choice. I have had many rods (many now sold) that had nickel silver hardware and I can't remember any that got tarnished. Actually I do remember a reel seat that started to get a yellow patina and I really liked it. I still have at least two rods with Bellinger reel seats and neither is tarnished at all. You may be exuding acid from your hands and this will accelerate the tarnishing of silver components.

I will gladly accept the few more grams of parasitic component weight of a nickel silver reel seat over that of an anodized aluminum seat. I have applied both to rods I have built for sale and for my personal use. I always looked at the aluminum hardware as more utilitarian than the more cosmetically appealing nickel silver. Hey, but that is just my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

 

[PennKev]

wbranch wrote:
I still have at least two rods with Bellinger reel seats and neither is tarnished at all. You may be exuding acid from your hands and this will accelerate the tarnishing of silver components.

Whatever the cause, the stuff tarnishes like crazy for me. It resembles the tarnish that appears on actual silver. For what it's worth, most used rods I've seen could use some work with a polishing cloth to bring back the shine of their NS reel seats.

Aluminum may be utilitarian, but the variety of anodized finishes now available on reel seats allows more variety when it comes to aesthetics. I look at it as a more modern material the same way as graphite compared to bamboo. l