Wild Trout and Ruffed Grouse

[Off The Path Outdoors]

This may be a tough ask, but I'm looking for some spots around the state where I can do some grouse hunting on Saturdays and wild brown trout fishing on Sundays this fall. I did a bit of car camping this spring and am hoping to travel to different parts of the state and explore new areas. There are a lot of resources out there to identify wild brown trout streams but not so much when it comes to grouse.

I am from northern dauphin county and haven't been able to find many grouse the past few years. I don't have a bird dog so the hunting is obviously tough. I've never connected with a grouse but it's at the top of my list this fall so I would really appreciate any input!

 

[BrookieChaser]

You're not seeing grouse because their population is in decline. PA forests, in general, are past the early successional stage ruffed grouse prefer and west nile disease has taken a toll on those that have adapted.

I won't hunt them until I see the population recover. It's bad hunting ethics, in my mind, to put more stress on a population in decline.

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

I won't hunt them until I see the population recover. It's bad hunting ethics, in my mind, to put more stress on a population in decline.

From what I understand some parts of the state have more than others. The game commission sets a season and bag limits so I have no issue following those guidelines, though I would not attempt to shoot more than one from a single area.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Asking for grouse coveys is probably more taboo than asking for a wild trout stream to fish.... with that said, the population does seem to be slowly rebounding in some areas. In the October season, productive grape vines near thick cover ideally with a briar/ shrub component mixed with very high stem count sapling regen.

 

[pcray1231]

I saw, err, heard a bunch of grouse last weekend. NW PA, national forest has a fair number of small clearcuts that are regrowing checkered around the big woods. Won't get any more specific than that. Yes, there are wild trout streams in the area too.

Those dang things scare the heck out of you every time. Even when I used to hunt them. You could know, hey, there's a grouse right in that thicket, I watched it go in there. Watch the dog go in. Know dang well that any second, it's gonna flush, you have the gun shouldered just waiting, knowing it's about to happen. I'm ready. And when it goes, that sound.... you near about fall on your arse in utter surprise, and by the time you come to your senses it's out of range. haha. Good times.

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

Asking for grouse coveys is probably more taboo than asking for a wild trout stream to fish....

Oh I know and am not asking for anyones coveys. I'm really asking for what kind of habitat has the potential to make a good covey. I flush a bird every now and then while not hunting grouse, so those are the areas I focus on, but I'm sure I could find more birds if I knew more about their habitat in PA.

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

I saw, err, heard a bunch of grouse last weekend. NW PA, national forest has a fair number of small clearcuts that are regrowing checkered around the big woods. Won't get any more specific than that. Yes, there are wild trout streams in the area too.

Do you have an idea what age clearcuts are the best bet? I am not familiar with NW PA, so I'm not sure if there is much aspen in that area. Most info you find online about grouse habitat has to do with aspen forests in Michigan, Minnesota, etc. and there isn't really aspen in the areas I hunt.

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

Those dang things scare the heck out of you every time. Even when I used to hunt them. You could know, hey, there's a grouse right in that thicket, I watched it go in there. Watch the dog go in. Know dang well that any second, it's gonna flush, you have the gun shouldered just waiting, knowing it's about to happen. I'm ready. And when it goes, that sound.... you near about fall on your arse in utter surprise, and by the time you come to your senses it's out of range. haha. Good times.

I feel all of this haha. When I first started out I thought there was absolutely no way possible to shoot one, especially without a dog. I have been close so I think there is a chance, but I always joke with my buddies that until I actually see it in person I will refuse to believe it can happen.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

In my experience, woodcock have much more predictable habitats than grouse.
Other than the classic early succession stands of aspen, I find that grouse prefer some level of habitat diversity in close proximity. For example, I was working some large clear-cut in deer season last year that were several hundred acres of black berries and beech brush that was almost impenetrable 6-8ft high. We didn't flush a single grouse.

I find them in similar growth but with more species diversity and small openings mixed in. Evergreen cover nearby, or thick rhodo stream bottoms nearby also seem to improve the chances of flushing birds.

As far as aging cuts, regen varies greatly throughout the state even from mountain to mountain so that is a difficult question to answer broadly in my experience.

 

[pcray1231]

Do you have an idea what age clearcuts are the best bet? I am not familiar with NW PA, so I'm not sure if there is much aspen in that area. Most info you find online about grouse habitat has to do with aspen forests in Michigan, Minnesota, etc. and there isn't really aspen in the areas I hunt.

The literature says <20 years.

In reality, just think thick. A lot of clearcuts leave 10-20% of the old trees standing, but you still get lots of new growth. Old reclaimed/replanted strip mines was a common place to hunt as well, much of what they plant is acid tolerant pines, but there are woodlots interspersed. Much of my grouse hunting happened when I was younger, a large, over a mile wide F4 tornado levelled a ton of forest around my cabin in 1985, grouse hunting was excellent in the late 90's and early 00's, so there you go, 10-20 year old regrowth surrounded by mature forest.

Come to think of it most of my grouse hotspots did have some pine around as well.

When we'd flush one we'd chase it. They rarely flew more than 100-200 yards. Watch where it goes. Go after it. We'd get multiple chances at the same bird. Hence as I said, you know it's in this here brushpile. You surround it in a semi-circle with guns, send the dog in, everyone's shouldered and ready. We got him now. Aaanny second. FLLWWWLLWLLWLWLLW. Everyone jumps about 10 feet high, noone fires a shot. Son of a b**** surprised us!!! Ok, where's it going now. lol. Lets go do this again. We did get a few, but it wasn't easy.

 

[dryflyguy]

I quit hunting around 10 years ago now. When they were getting so scarce, flushing 2-3 was a pretty good day.

Never used a dog
And I'm no great wing shot for sure.
But I still managed to connect on a few here and there.

I really enjoyed it though.
And looked at all the misses like catch and release fishing

 

[Dave_W]

I used to do combined wild trout-grouse hunting trips here in SCPA. These days grouse are very rare in Michaux and my usual stomping grounds around here. I used to like steep draws and would hunt down them to get to the stream, stash my shotgun, break out the travel rod, fish up and down, then recover the gun and hike back up a different trail or draw.

Centre Co. had excellent grouse hunting when I was a student but that was decades ago and I can't speak to that area now.

For what you're looking at - if it were me - I'd focus on the PA Wilds region above I80. As Pcray and others have pointed out, look for the right forest age range with nearby streams.

 

[dryflyguy]

I used to do combined wild trout-grouse hunting trips here in SCPA. These days grouse are very rare in Michaux and my usual stomping grounds around here. I used to like steep draws and would hunt down them to get to the stream, stash my shotgun, break out the travel rod, fish up and down, then recover the gun and hike back up a different trail or draw.

Centre Co. had excellent grouse hunting when I was a student but that was decades ago and I can't speak to that area now.

For what you're looking at - if it were me - I'd focus on the PA Wilds region above I80. As Pcray and others have pointed out, look for the right forest age range with nearby streams.

So, you hid the gun in the woods while you fished?
Interesting.....

I used to do cast and blast trips around the Little J in the fall.
But I'd hunt in the morning, then trade the gun for a rod in the afternoon.
Worked out pretty well though.
Not much rising in October until the afternoon anyway

 

[troutbert]

In my experience, woodcock have much more predictable habitats than grouse.
Other than the classic early succession stands of aspen, I find that grouse prefer some level of habitat diversity in close proximity. For example, I was working some large clear-cut in deer season last year that were several hundred acres of black berries and beech brush that was almost impenetrable 6-8ft high. We didn't flush a single grouse.

I find them in similar growth but with more species diversity and small openings mixed in. Evergreen cover nearby, or thick rhodo stream bottoms nearby also seem to improve the chances of flushing birds.

As far as aging cuts, regen varies greatly throughout the state even from mountain to mountain so that is a difficult question to answer broadly in my experience.

The highest density of grouse I've ever seen was in thick rhododendron that I was struggling through to get to a brook trout stream. I was really surprised, because although there is cover, it doesn't seem like there would be much food.

And I've only seen this one time. Many other times I've gone through rhododendron and not seen any grouse at all.

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

The literature says <20 years.

In reality, just think thick. A lot of clearcuts leave 10-20% of the old trees standing, but you still get lots of new growth. Old reclaimed/replanted strip mines was a common place to hunt as well, much of what they plant is acid tolerant pines, but there are woodlots interspersed. Much of my grouse hunting happened when I was younger, a large, over a mile wide F4 tornado levelled a ton of forest around my cabin in 1985, grouse hunting was excellent in the late 90's and early 00's, so there you go, 10-20 year old regrowth surrounded by mature forest.

Come to think of it most of my grouse hotspots did have some pine around as well.

Some great input. I appreciate it!

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

I quit hunting around 10 years ago now. When they were getting so scarce, flushing 2-3 was a pretty good day.

Never used a dog
And I'm no great wing shot for sure.
But I still managed to connect on a few here and there.

I really enjoyed it though.
And looked at all the misses like catch and release fishing

I definitely wish there were more birds in my area. I have one spot where I can always find a bird or two but just haven't connected. It is definitely a lot of fun even with the low flush rates. I always tell my buddies there is nothing like the half second of chaos when a grouse explodes out of nowhere!

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

I used to do combined wild trout-grouse hunting trips here in SCPA. These days grouse are very rare in Michaux and my usual stomping grounds around here. I used to like steep draws and would hunt down them to get to the stream, stash my shotgun, break out the travel rod, fish up and down, then recover the gun and hike back up a different trail or draw.

Centre Co. had excellent grouse hunting when I was a student but that was decades ago and I can't speak to that area now.

For what you're looking at - if it were me - I'd focus on the PA Wilds region above I80. As Pcray and others have pointed out, look for the right forest age range with nearby streams.

That sounds like a lot of fun! My family is part of a camp in Potter county, but I can only go if there is a member there so it limits my trips. I may have to do some camping on my own in that area... lot's of trout streams at least.

 

[Prospector]

I’ve been a PA grouse cooperator for years, which means I provide the PA biologist all of my hunting records and I save parts of each bird so they can get age, sex and test the remains for West Nile Virus. In addition to that I’m part of a national grouse group (Loyal Order of Dedicated Grouse Hunters) that accumulates grouse and woodcock flush data from all states we hunt. The LODGH data shows that all states had a decline but PA is the only “Top 5 state” that has not recovered. The national numbers show something like 12 of 13 years of declining PA flush rates. PA has been below 1 flush per hour for several years now in the LODGH survey. So we are in the lowest population cycle in PA ever.

However to achieve your goal this is what you need to do. Get a list together of a bunch of places where you want to try wild brown streams. Then go onto Google in the vicinity of those streams and look for clearcuts. They will show up very well. One clearcut is hit/miss. Several clearcuts in an area separated by patches of mature forests are best. That gives you birds trading back and forth between good and marginal habitat. You won’t know exact cover and food availability until you put boots on the ground. You will shoot a grouse doing that.

When you get in good cover don’t walk in a straight line. Think “Crazy Ivan” in movie Hunt for Red October. Take 10 steps and stop. Stopping makes them nervous and they flush. Stutter your starts. Stop, wait for 10 secs, then step right or left (wherever there is good cover) 1 step and stop again. Many will let you walk past. Many will run ahead and flush. That’s just the deal. You are hunting the ones that hold, not the ones that run. You need to unnerve them. Im not in front of my PC but I think my data suggests that the best clearcut age is 12-16 years old. That can be acquired from some sources. I just make notes when a new one is made where I hunt and return several years later.

I hunted grouse only 3 hours last year. Saw 2. Flush rate of 0.67. That told me to give them a break. My PA grouse flush rate over the last 15 years averages 3.2 birds per hour, with high of 4.04. That how bad the decline is.

 

[silverfox]

I heard several different grouse drumming in May while fishing a brook trout stream. There are wild browns and stocked browns and rainbows there too. It's a laurel and conifer thicket. A little left of central PA. I heard one up in Potter Co on a brook trout stream in late May too. Brushy willow bottom. Growing up we had a lot of grouse up on a ridge on SGL/SF land. Again, thick laurel and conifers.

 

[Off The Path Outdoors]

I’ve been a PA grouse cooperator for years, which means I provide the PA biologist all of my hunting records and I save parts of each bird so they can get age, sex and test the remains for West Nile Virus. In addition to that I’m part of a national grouse group (Loyal Order of Dedicated Grouse Hunters) that accumulates grouse and woodcock flush data from all states we hunt. The LODGH data shows that all states had a decline but PA is the only “Top 5 state” that has not recovered. The national numbers show something like 12 of 13 years of declining PA flush rates. PA has been below 1 flush per hour for several years now in the LODGH survey. So we are in the lowest population cycle in PA ever.

This is definitely a sad statistic. I'm too young to have experienced the good days, but my dad, grandpa, and others have told me many times. Hopefully there is a rebound in the future but they have a lot working against them.