White Deer Creek, Clinton County

[Foxgap239]

Does anyone know if the PFBC plans to continue the fingerling stocking program in the C&R stretch past this year? (I think this is the thrid year of the 3 year plan) All reports I've seen or heard say that very few fish hold over and the program has been a failure. I'm not saying a agree with that statement, just saying that's what I've heard.

Always loved fishing that stream as it cleared long before any other stream in that area after heavy spring rains.

 

[Acristickid]

I no longer see it on the PA fish commission site under fingerling sticking programs. The last year I could verify was 2013. It's not on 2015 and the link for 2014 crapped out for me at least. Just search fingerling program in the search bar.

 

[OldLefty]

The fingerling stocking which took place this past October is the last of the fingerling stockings scheduled under the experimental 3 yr. program.

We were told that, to be considered a success, a fingerling stocking program should yield about 25% carryover. Since 5000 fingerling brown trout were stocked that would mean 1250 browns remaining when the stream was surveyed.

I don't know what the survey conducted just before the stocking revealed for the second year of the program; however, I observed the survey in 2013. At that time there were only around 20 browns captured in that survey. That's not 20%, that's 20 fish total, a far cry from 1250. That's less than 0.5%.

I've heard rumors that the 2014 survey results weren't any better. Of course, that was just rumor.

There is to be one more survey conducted this fall. I'd be greatly surprised if the results were dramatically different. I don't see this boding well for the fingerling program on White Deer Creek.

 

[troutbert]

What do you all think is the deal with this stream?

I used to catch fair numbers of wild trout, both browns and brookies, both in the regs area and outside of it.

At one time the PFBC considered it Class B.

The whole upper end is in state forest land, so forested watershed, should be good wild trout stream. There are some other freestoners in the region that have lots of wild trout.

Does this stream have "issues" and if so, what are they?

I don't think you can blame infertility/acid rain, because of the presence of wild browns, and because it has many of the standard mayfly hatches. Truly infertile streams do not have brown trout, and sparse mayfly life.

WDC is a puzzlement.

 

[duckfoot]

troutbert wrote:
WDC is a puzzlement.

What are the alkalinity levels?

 

[troutpoop]

I have caught wild trout there as recently as 3 years ago in the upper sections. These fish were only 4 or 5 inches long.

 

[OldLefty]

When I observed the survey I was surprised at the low numbers of wild trout, especially brookies. I know folks that fished this same section of stream early in the season and they showed me pictures of some nice native brookies. They were nowhere to be found during the survey.

In conversations with PFBC personnel they estimated the population at class C at best. There was no discussion as to why the low density of trout.

Some folks I know still feel that poaching is a major factor here. I find it hard to understand why poachers would want to take trout as small as 6 to 7 inches; however, I was told by one old timer that small trout thrown into a pan and fried crisp are eaten whole since the bones become soft. O.K., maybe there is reason to take many small trout for a few meals. I know that poaching was an issue here when adult trout were stocked.

When other factors are considered it's hard to pinpoint anything that really stands out. There is a water temp. issue during the heat of summer: temps. can go into the mid-70's. Do the trout seek refuge in other parts of the stream? Could that be why there aren't many wild fish here in late September when the survey is conducted?

 

[troutbert]

What section(s) were they surveying, and doing the fingerling stocking?

 

[JackM]

I may be talking from my rear, but I don't think this stream has many tributaries, Thus, running upstream is all a trout can do to seek thermal refuge. The uppermost section is Class A and also its only or major tributary.

 

[troutbert]

OldLefty wrote:

There is a water temp. issue during the heat of summer: temps. can go into the mid-70's. Do the trout seek refuge in other parts of the stream? Could that be why there aren't many wild fish here in late September when the survey is conducted?

That seems very likely.

I saw a similar thing on another freestoner. On a section where I've caught good numbers of wild trout when flow and temps were favorable, I watched the PFBC electrofish in early September when flow was still low, and after a summer of drought and heat. They got very few trout, even in some really good habitat spots. The trout had surely moved upstream looking for cooler water.

 

[OldLefty]

The fingerling stocking is only in the C&R section. The rest of the stream is stocked with adult trout.

Dwight, your observation was same. Even with good habitat/cover there weren't many fish. Some great habitat - root systems and undercut banks produced no fish.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

I caught my first native brookies on a fly rod in the c&r section of this stream. I found a scour pool behind a large root wad and proceeded to catch like 4 natives on 5 casts with a pt nymph. needless to say I was hooked. I have have fished the same section atleast once a year since and have had marginal luck at best... a close friend of mine has fished it steadily for 20 years and he says the trout numbers have declned steadily since the fingerling stocking began. we all can see the poor genetics of the adult fish the state stocks, but how about the fingerlings? They should be able to atleast survive 1 year, reproduction would be my concern, but is it possible the genetics of the stocked fingerlings aren't up to par?

 

[Foxgap239]

Well we are headed up that way 4/23 to 4/26 for the Grannoms but if the forecast holds as shown, White Deer may be where end up. Looks like lots o' rain between now and next Thursday. I'll give a fishing report if we do.

If poaching is really a problem (and I've heard it was), there aren't unlimited parking spaces there. A few trail strategically placed trail cams should yield a view. I will tell you though that the last year they stocked adult fish in March, I was still catching good numbers when I was there in June and I would think if poaching was rampant, that wouldn't be the case but that's only my opinion.

 

[Acristickid]

Fished the C&R section yesterday. No legal sized trout were caught. Pretty stream , lots of under cut banks. Water was super clear.