When There Are No Rises

[hof52]

I taught myself to fly fish with the help of youtube, this forum, and talking to guys on the stream. I was exclusively fishing nymphs with a strike indicator. After heading to Kettle Creek during the March Brown hatch I dont think I ever want to nymph fish again. Last weekend on the yough there were no rises and the cool temps had me tempted to go back to some nymphs. Eventually I reminded myself i was there because of the thrill of a trout rising to my fly. But I had no idea what to throw. I blindly tied on a size 12 royal wulff and started casting bringing a nice rainbow to hand. Grinning ear to ear I had satisfied the dry fly addiction. I am sure this is due to confidence in the fly and a little bit of luck. My question is when nothing is rising and there are no bugs on the top of the water during fall and winter months what do you guys do to get some fish on drys? What tips do you have when the fish are in deeper pools and you watch a guy catch trout on a rooster tail but you want to catch one on a dry? I need advice to maximize some dry fly action when the fish are willing to feed but they arent coming to the surface.
Thanks for your input
Adam
PS Im addicted to dry fly fishing

 

[Jessed]

When in the dead of winter you're kinda limited. There may be a midge hatch but that's not certain and even if there is you never know if the fish will be taking them. Fish do most of there eating under water. So it's not a very common occurrence to go to the stream and see fish rising ever ( it does happen though) usually when spring hits and there's no bugs on the water you could use a attractor dry or a buggy looking dry and have a fish take it. Now in late fall and winter, fish aren't as active so the chances of that are slim. Now when I trout eats a rooster tail he's eating it Because it's a big meal and looks like something injured or angers the fish. If you see people catching fish on them try and flashy and annoying streamer.

 

[NewSal]

I'm no expert, but so far in my fly fishing career I've found that a tan elk hair caddis will usually bring a few fish to the top even when there are no other fish rising.

It all depends on what water you are fishing, during what time, and what conditions are happening.

There are NO magical flies that will always catch fish all the time no matter what, so don't try to find it. You HAVE to let the water/fish tell you what fly to use. You cannot tell the water/fish what to eat!

Have you considered a dry dropper? To satisfy your urge to fish a dry, but still allowing more opportunity to catch fish on your nymph? I find myself fishing this way more and more often, a very satisfying way to fish.

 

[pcray1231]

My question is when nothing is rising and there are no bugs on the top of the water during fall and winter months what do you guys do to get some fish on drys?

1. On small, infertile freestoners you can usually bring a few to the surface year round. Even in mid-summer you often don't see any, or many, natural rises, yet they attack a dry. In winter, certainly less so, but I still catch plenty on top. Usually they just won't move as far for it, and in deeper water, that might do you in, but if you stick to shallower water you can catch a few. Just don't expect summertime numbers. But that's true if you go underneath too.

2. On larger richer waters I sometimes prospect with dries. At hatch times of the year, if say, you're expecting a march brown or sulpher hatch to start up in an hour or so, then pretend it's already started. Fish are often in feeding lanes and looking up in anticipation. Helps if you were there yesterday during the hatch and you saw which lanes they were working, as they'll be there now too. Usually this is a situation where you do see the occasional rise, every 10 or 20 minutes one comes up and rises once or twice, then stops, and 20 minutes later another pops up in a different spot, then stops. I think it's a sign they're getting impatient, just like you are, waiting for things to ramp up. The rises are probably testing out things like little leaf pieces that maybe, sorta looked like what they're waiting for. They will test your dry fly too.

3. Or, spring, summer, and fall, there's virtually almost always a few caddis fluttering about. If the fish are in an aggressive mood with just not much food available, skittering an elk hair caddis or stimulator around the surface can entice reaction strikes. Skitter, drift, skitter, drift. When it works, this is fairly effective and a whole lot of fun, as the hits can be unexpected and leaping, rod doubling over affairs.

But as a general rule of thumb, on larger, richer streams when they aren't actively rising nor anticipating a hatch nor being super aggressive, then they're on the bottom. They may be eating down there. But they're doing it down there, not on top. And you need to go down there to catch them.

 

[dryflyguy]

On the yough - I prospect with a slate drake (isonychia) pattern.
They trickle off there all summer - and thru fall until november.

On smaller streams, terrestrials work for me quite well. I've caught many fish on beetle patterns when they're not rising at all.

Catching fish on dries in the winter can be a tough challenge though. Unless you hit a midge hatch.

I usually quit fishing by december. And start taking inventory of my fly stock, and tying for the next season.

 

[troutpoop]

The above advice is all good. I much prefer dries myself and often find myself casting them even when nothing is showing.
I often go to a small size 18 tan caddis or BWO emerger, size 20 depending on the type of water I'm on. I may also go with a variety of midges but that would be if I'm at a location I have encountered them before.

 

[krayfish2]

You almost have to look at it on a case by case basis. 3 very basic generalizations: Caddis is a good searching pattern mid April through June and again mid September thru October. Slate Drake is a good searching pattern from early June thru October. Big stimulator pattern late April through mid June.

It's pretty critical for you to be familiar with the river you're going to fish and know what insects it holds. It's equally important to know what type of water hold which type of bugs. Knowing the behavior of the bug isn't a bad idea either.

During dead periods, it's likely that you will be able to trigger a surface take from the smaller fish.....with the exception of slate drake (in my experience). ISO's can bring big fish up out of nowhere.

You also have to realize that sometimes, you aren't going to bring fish up to the surface. You'll never force them to do something they don't want to do. If they aren't willing to come to you, you'll have to go down to them. It's that simple. You take what old man river gives you.

Why force it on top and catch 3 fish when you could mix it up (dry, nymph, dry/dropper) and catch 15 fish? You'll have days when it's nothing but dries all day long but you'll experience many more uncooperative days from the fish. Just a thought.

 

[pcray1231]

During dead periods, it's likely that you will be able to trigger a surface take from the smaller fish.

Interesting. My take is pretty much the opposite. For instance, if I'm skittering around a caddis or stimmy during dead periods, yes, I catch fewer fish than if I were nymphing, but the average size tends to be larger, not smaller.

I think part of it is where I'm fishing. When skittering I tend to target structure, both submerged and overhead. Places where fish are likely holding closer to the surface. Around big submerged rocks, under overhanging bushes, rock points along the shoreline, back eddies, the heads of bigger riffs, etc. I think bigger fish tend to take up residence in such places. They are also difficult places to nymph.

When nymphing, though, I tend to look for deeper runs in the main channel with some current where I can tick bottom with a decent drift. Current seams. Such places are relatively certain to have some fish nearly all of the time, but they tend to be smaller fish in bigger bunches.

 

[krayfish2]

Pat,

I'm taking the OP info of being in SW and fishing the Yough. By smaller fish, I'm talking about fish that are under 15". If you are trying to lure a 22" brown off the bottom of a pool measuring 12' deep in the Yough, you'll need more than a #16 EHC to trigger a response.

If you are in a small freestone stream, you can easily trigger a majority of the fish to come up due to depth of water, clarity and lack of food (many cases). In a western PA mountain brook, it may be pool after pool packed with 4" - 5" ST. In this case, the 10.5" monster will likely be receptive to a dry presentation.

The 2 are very different situations and I was reading the OP as he was and probably be fishing the Yough.

 

[pcray1231]

I wasn't really talking about a small freestone stream. In a small freestoner, I don't really consider fishing dries "prospecting". You rarely have situations where they're rising frequently and naturally, and dries are probably the most popular way to fish them.

I was more talking medium to large (by my standards) streams. Streams like Spring, Penns, LJR, BFC, Kettle, upper Pine, upper Allegheny (Potter Cty), and the like. But granted, not the size of the D, Yough, or Lehigh.

Skittering a caddis around structure is a very common way for me to fish Spring when nothing of note is going on. Skitter it over rock ledges, under branches, in back eddies, etc.

Likewise March Browns on Penns. If I'm on stream prior to the hatch starting, I'll sometimes fish dries along the edges and in the heavy pockets behind rocks.

 

[McSneek]

hof52 wrote:
My question is when nothing is rising and there are no bugs on the top of the water during fall and winter months what do you guys do to get some fish on drys?

Nothing. I understand your desire to catch fish on dry flies but if you're fishing for trout in the fall/winter months (say November through February) when there are no fish rising I suggest you adapt and start fishing streamers or go back to nymphs. You just aren't going to have a lot of opportunities for dry fly fishing in cold weather.

 

[krayfish2]

hof52 wrote:
My question is when nothing is rising and there are no bugs on the top of the water during fall and winter months what do you guys do to get some fish on drys?

Tailwater or limestoner and midges are the only real chance of finding rising fish.

Pat,

You are right that during the March Brown on Penns, you can blind cast MB emerger and have success. If you were to head up on October 18th and chuck a MB emerger around, odds are that you'd have substantially less success.

I think you'll agree that the general pattern is that as the season starts, olives and caddis are often first and usually plentiful. As the season fades, you have the same hatches again all the way into November. The only different one in the fall is the ISO as the first brood typically isn't seen until June. OP was looking for winter / off season dry options.

You touched on Spring / Penns vs. Yough / Delaware. I'm not sure the size of the water has much to do with it. I think it has a little more to do with fish density, types of holding water, clarity and hatches. If I compare 2 big waters on the same side of the state, Lehigh vs. Delaware. If you were to float 5 miles on the WB during the summer months, the fish per mile is off the chart due to tons moving up from the Main or dropping back out of the EB. Blind casting works and works well. If you are familiar with the river and know the troughs, cuts, boulders and other places where fish 'might' sit, you'll be even more successful. I can't say the same for the Lehigh and I'm not exactly sure why. There's a much lower fish per mile count. For our boat (several trips), blind casting gave up virtually zero fish. Now, you were patient while looking for noses, the fish were very accommodating. Once you knew where to look for them, you'd find fish in the same general areas. I was baffled why they weren't everywhere because if you float the section from Jim Thorpe to Walnutport, it's tremendous structure. The hatches were strong which leaves me to believe it's competition. Lehigh fish might not be stacked on top of each other fighting for a feeding lane, the hatches were strong and only fish that showed themselves were caught on top. Nymphing likely spots also produced fish that had no interest in venturing toward the surface.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

We don't blind cast dry flies in winter months. We do catch fish on dry flies every month of the year in medium sized SE and SC creeks, both freestone and limestone. Try to look for fish feeding on BWOs or midges. The rises will be subtle. You might see something that looks like a drop of rain fell on the water. Look in slower sections and sometimes below a wastewater treatment plant. Tiny BWO or Griffiths gnat will work.

 

[pcray1231]

Kray, true. But if I went in October and skittered a caddis around I'd have success. Or a March evening. Or a June morning. Probably not January, though.

March Browns, Isos, and virtually any Mayfly you can prospect with in the appropriate season, even if the hatch isn't happening that day or at that moment. Just pretend it is. Those fish know the game and are in their feeding lies, looking up, and expecting to start seeing that bug.

But caddis, even outside of major hatch times, will entice strikes. You want aggressive, active fish for this, not sulking midday summer or lethargic winterfish in freezing water. But active chasers. And you want movement on the fly. This ain't dead drifting. You want the fly to make a wake and draw attention. Skitter, drift, skitter, drift. The skitter is far more than a twitch, it's literally dragging the fly 5 ft or so skipping along the surface. Often they actually hit on the skitter part. Get a lot of misses too.

When I used to live in state college and spent tons of time on Spring, I'd do this a lot in May and June mornings on Spring Creek. Sulphur time in the evenings, but not much going on in the mornings during that seasonal gap after olives are over but before blue quills or tricos get goin. Still water temps are ideal and fish are active in the mornings. There were always just a couple of caddis fluttering around that stream for about 9 months of the year, even if it lacked any caddis mega hatch like grannoms. One day I witnessed one get taken by a launching fish when the bug was flying about a foot over the water. So I tied one on and whipped a frenzy over him and caught it. Kept going on unseen fish and had quite a day. Great way to fish eddies and under overhanging bushes that Spring has so many of too.

Then I started doing it elsewhere at other times and it seems to work in a lot of places a lot of times. Anytime I feel fish should be active but no bugs are showing, it at least crosses my mind. Even in normal hatch chasing over risers I started incorporating the cast too far, skitter into the lane and let drift approach if it refuses a good straight dead drift first. It often works. They love the skitter.

Note, with caddis, you don't want crappy cdc flies for this. Gotta float high and dry even when dragging it around. Elk hairs work if the body is well hackled. Small stimmys will get the job done too.

 

[hooker-of-men]

I imagine it is largely regional, but I, personally, would emphasize the BWO mentions above. I'm nymph-averse, as I really don't enjoy fishing them unless maybe as a dry-dropper rig (which I never really get to work), and I often fish dries for no good reason. Terrestrials and caddis attractors get the job done in spring and summer, but I feel BWOs produce for the longest range of the year. But I'm also a novice that isn't fully convinced by the idea that you have to give the fish what they are eating. I've been in plenty of situations where there's, for instance, a heavy sulfur hatch and the fish are plenty eager to smack the hell out of BWOs because, I assume, it's something they're very used to seeing. Not exactly matching the hatch there.

 

[SteveG]

My take on dry fly fishing (which I enjoy) is that you want to be in an area/situation that will increase you chances of bringing a fish up top.

You mention fish in a deep pool in Fall/Winter. Even during a bwo or midge hatch, those fish are still less likely to feed up top. So, I usually move to water more conducive to finding risers.

I really enjoy fishing dries in Winter. That being said I bring a thermos of coffee, food, and a book or something to work on while I wait for midges or bwo to come off.

 

[krayfish2]

Hooker,
During sulphurs, there are often olives mixed in by the boatload. They are smaller, darker and not as visible as the bigger / lighter sulphurs. Most people are looking so hard for the sulphurs that they don't even notice the olives. Fish often key in on the olives too. What you're saying makes perfect sense. Take a close look in the film next time you're sulphur fishing.

 

[dryflyguy]

I didn't mention them in my earlier post. But BWO's are probably one of the most prolific hatches on PA waters. I've caught fish on them in every month of the year. Of course, timing and conditions come into play. But they are one pattern that I carry with me ALL the time.

I've always been rather puzzled as to why most of the fisherman I meet don't seem to bother much with terrestrial fishing. During the warmer months of the year - may thru october - they are the first thing I tie on in no hatch/no rise situations. And - unless I see some aquatic insects hatching - I stick with them throughout the day.

 

[wbranch]

In my experience if you find yourself on a fertile freestone like the WB of the Delaware it is very likely you will be able to find fish rising, albeit for possibly only a short period of time, someplace on the river. Typically the best hatches, and hence the most rising fish, will be found from mid April until the end of June. However many tail waters, that have cold water releases, typically have extended may fly emergences into the late summer, mid to late August.

After the big hatches are over you can prospect the riffles with an Iso dry and an Iso nymph on a dropper. As another member mentioned you can blind fish riffles 1' - 3' deep in water that is a good temperature and well oxygenagated. Prospect with a good floater like a #12 - #14 EHC or a Humpy.

After the days start getting shorter and the ambient temps start dipping into the high 40's at night the chances of finding any rising trout become slimmer and slimmer. If you just have to catch trout on a dry fly when it gets cold try chasing chromers with a dry fly. I've not done it yet but I see a guy on Elk Creek catch steelhead on a dry fly when the temperatures are in the high 40's to low 50's.

When all else fails sit on the bank and ponder your existence. What is the Meaning of Life. Fantasize about how many 20" browns are going to rise to your #18 Blue Dun Sulfur caddis next season. Enjoy!

 

[hooker-of-men]

krayfish2 wrote:
Hooker,
During sulphurs, there are often olives mixed in by the boatload. They are smaller, darker and not as visible as the bigger / lighter sulphurs. Most people are looking so hard for the sulphurs that they don't even notice the olives. Fish often key in on the olives too. What you're saying makes perfect sense. Take a close look in the film next time you're sulphur fishing.

Oh, for sure. My point was that, at least on big streams here in the Poconos, the BWO hatches seem to be consistent and mixed with a lot of hatches, even if its 90/10 with something like big obvious sulfurs and little BWOs. Which is to say that, as dryflyguy says, those bugs are almost always out there on my streams, and fishing them blind often works because fish are so used to seeing them.