What's up with the Little Lehigh FFO section ?

[HopperPlopper]

Hi everyone,

Being based in Philly, I often fish the Little Lehigh creek -- and particularly the FFO section just below the hatchery in Allentown. However pressured this area is, it's always made up for it with great numbers of nice, sometimes huge stocked and holdover fish. Also, these fish are generally active yet tough to fool, making for some fun dry fly fishing. My question is: what happened to them? Over my past few trips (August to October), I saw little-to-no activity; very few fish around; and only very sporadic risers -- mostly small wild browns. It seems like most of the fish are gone, including from pools that used to have ton of them (like the infamous hatchery pool). Has anyone had a similar experience? And did something happen? I heard rumors of poaching, but still surprised to see the stream almost lifeless. Could have just run into a few slow days, but I was curious to ask about other people's recent experiences. Being a section dominated by stocked fish, I generally feel ok fishing it during the spawn (obviously, without entering the water). For all the issues and room for improvement that this stream has, I'm very sad to see it in this state.

Thanks!

 

[troutbert]

Have you seen any changes to the physical habitat (pools and cover) that might explain this?

 

[Hilltop]

If you think the heritage section is bad don't go to the wild cherry lane section.

 

[Bamboozle]

I realize that the adjacent Sections 7 & 9 are stocked, but you do realize that the section you are talking about, Section 8 hasn't been stocked a LONG time. That section was being assessed for Class A listing back around 2012 and it was finally added to the Class A list in 2016.

In addition, the Queen City Hatchery supposedly made improvements around the same time to prevent escapees during heavy rain events which dramatically diminished the number of stocked fish in that section, especially in the Hatchery Pool or the "Kiddie" Pool as it is better known on PAFF.

If you want to catch stockers in the Little Lehigh there are plenty of better sections unless you have an aversion to conventional anglers.

 

[FlyGuy9]

I realize that the adjacent Sections 7 & 9 are stocked, but you do realize that the section you are talking about, Section 8 hasn't been stocked a LONG time. That section was being assessed for Class A listing back around 2012 and it was finally added to the Class A list in 2016.

In addition, the Queen City Hatchery supposedly made improvements around the same time to prevent escapees during heavy rain events which dramatically diminished the number of stocked fish in that section, especially in the Hatchery Pool or the "Kiddie" Pool as it is better known on PAFF.

If you want to catch stockers in the Little Lehigh there are plenty of better sections unless you have an aversion to conventional anglers.

The hatchery still puts fish that section…

 

[troutbert]

If you think the heritage section is bad don't go to the wild cherry lane section.

What changes have taken place there?

 

[Nympho]

The big flood this summer took its toll on many Lehigh Valley creeks.

 

[HopperPlopper]

I realize that the adjacent Sections 7 & 9 are stocked, but you do realize that the section you are talking about, Section 8 hasn't been stocked a LONG time. That section was being assessed for Class A listing back around 2012 and it was finally added to the Class A list in 2016.

In addition, the Queen City Hatchery supposedly made improvements around the same time to prevent escapees during heavy rain events which dramatically diminished the number of stocked fish in that section, especially in the Hatchery Pool or the "Kiddie" Pool as it is better known on PAFF.

If you want to catch stockers in the Little Lehigh there are plenty of better sections unless you have an aversion to conventional anglers.

When were those improvements made?

I'm aware of the different sections. And no aversion to conventional anglers -- I sometimes happily throw a nightcrawler when regulations allow it.

The decline I'm talking about concerns the past 3-4 months. I remember seeing good numbers of fish & activity up until June. And almost nothing the past few outings -- not even in the Kiddie Pool, which was usually teeming with hatchery.

But again, I might have just stumbled into a few slow days.

 

[Mike]

Adding to what Bamboozle said, Section 07 had a 97 kg/ha wild brown trout biomass in 2013; the most recent survey in 2021 revealed a 10 kg/ha biomass. Based on experience, I have no reason to think that such a relative decline in biomass upstream from the C&R area would not also have occurred to that magnitude within the C&R area. Such losses have to do with environmental/physical habitat conditions and their impact on year class strength and/or juvenile/adult habitats or summer temperature effects on all fish. They have nothing to do with fishing pressure. This is one reason why I spoke out against year around C&R for wild BT while allowing continued stocking of RT in Section 07. You don’t correct environmental problems in trout streams, most likely caused by stormwater runoff, with C&R fishing regs. C&R doesn’t trump reality.

Despite being a stocked section and under conventional regs, Section 07 carried a substantial wild brown trout population that at times rivaled that of the C&R reg area below. As an example, during the 2001 and 2002 surveys of Section 07, despite conventional regs and stocking at rates higher than today there were WILD brown trout average population estimates of 1133 BT/km seven inches and longer, 48 BT/km twelve inches and longer, and 1-2 BT fourteen inches and longer. In the downstream C&R area of Section 08 in 2003 WILD brown trout population estimates averaged across two sampling sites were 1288/km seven inches and longer, 66/km twelve inches and longer, and 1-2/km fourteen inches and longer.

Finally, if you are seeking a potentially better biomass of wild BT and dissatisfied with the C&R Section 08, go to Section 04, located six to ten miles upstream, which is also a stocked section that will be managed with C&R regs for BT in the future while RT will continue to be stocked. Its most recent sampling of two yrs ago revealed three Class A equivalent biomasses at four sites. The other was a B.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Board,

I know I'm a broken record, but compared to when I started fishing the LL the stream is about 60% of it's original width. Much of the dry land on the banks of the Heritage section was under water and held fish in the late 1980's.

It's a lot like Spring Creek. When you use 100% of the available water in the aquifer every day and you build and pave over 75% of the acreage in the drainage basin no good outcomes are possible. I think Joni Mitchell wrote a song about that.

Regards.

Tim Murphy

 

[JeffK]

I agree with the decline - seems like most of the bottom in the Heritage Stretch is bare bedrock - much less gravel sections. Also, no big weedbeds like in the old days (same as all Lehigh Valley streams). I attribute much of this to the flood/drought yo-yo of the past decade. Lesser normal flows with frquent serious flooding. Back in the day I think the fly shop was never flooded or maybe once or twice in decades. Now it floods every year, some years more than once.

In a timely trip, I just fished there yesterday with a buddy. It was slow with much less than the usual amount of fish spotted. My buddy got five in the AM; 4 little rainbows and one nice brown. I skunked in the AM, but got a nice brown and a 14" rainbow in the PM. Early afternoon had a few olives sporadically hatching and a few takers, but no regular risers. Tried for them a while to no avail.

All summer fishing was good for me, but dry fly fishing for tricos was practically non-existent. Could catch loads of fish underwater with rainbows hitting anything and the browns mostly on small midges. My basic combo was a sunk thread ant and a size 22 or 24 avatar. The ant caught mostly rainbows; the avatar caught mostly small browns. However, dry fly fishing was tough. Could manage a fish or two on top by hitting a few spots where fish commonly rise (getting fewer each year), but no real hatches/spinner falls that bring numbers of fish up. Plus, with only a few spots where fish rise at all, those spots get hammered by some very good fishermen and the rising fish get be very spooky. In the summer when I could catch a bunch of fish underwater I felt free to spend more time trying to find rising fish. When I work hard to put a fish or two in the net with nymphs the dry only goes on when I see a solidly rising fish.

 

[caddisflyer]

Haven't been back in years but used to have decent blue wings and midges. I liked the Heritage area least of that stream. Fishing outside the Heritage section I did okay on streamers in winter and early spring. All those fish were often associated with wood or undercut mud banks. Some of the fish were good sized.

 

[Bamboozle]

The hatchery still puts fish that section

Are you sure...?

Section 4 & Section 7 are both Class A and already stocked by the PFBC as part of the "Stream Sections That are Designated as Both Stocked Trout Waters and Class A Wild Trout Streams" program.

It makes NO sense that the Queen City Hatchery would be allowed to stock Section 8 when it is Class A and NOT part of that program.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

I have a buddy who is a fairly good angler who fished it on the 9th. Didn't have a good time. He caught one fish. He said there were some people there "slamming fish", maybe locals or regulars who really know the water there. I have not fished it since October 10th of last year. I went there three or four times there last year and managed 1 trout every time, even if it was caught at dusk on a small dry pattern. my usual tactic for fishing there was to nymph the faster stuff and to find a pod of suckers to work over for awhile. Anyone who knows me knows I love my suckers. I'd bide my time until I could get a spot in the Kiddie Pool right at dusk. I could pick one up there on a small sulfur or trico. Standing on the concrete (hatchery side) it was neat to make short casts (I was practically dapping) over the pod of rising fish. I'd get one that would toast my dry and then put the fish down. It was funny because once I hooked the fish I'd have to climb down the cement lip to land it. On one occasion I had my buddy toss my net over to me. Those were great looking fish so I guess they were wild.

My overall take on that stretch of the creek is that it's highly technical with pressured fish that many anglers (more skilled than I) are targeting. Not the place for me to chuck my bobbers, although if I hit it again I will attempt a dry dropper. I like the narrower point below the bypass, great tight-lining water AND there's a great sucker hole a few hundred yards down (usually where I start out to check my rigs and to take a few fish to get my confidence up).

 

[Hilltop]

What changes have taken place there?

Nothing real recent, just habitat degradation over the last 25 years. There are sections from above Wild Cherry to Mill Race Rd that are like swamps, you feel like you're in Louisiana marshes, you take one step into the stream and sink up to your waist in silt. The riparian buffer zone is actually pretty good but it probably can't handle the amount of stormwater runoff from the retirement community on one side and the town homes on the other side. There use to be a farm house and barn not far from the bridge on Wild Cherry and that was the only house you could see; now there are 1000's of people living on either side of the stream there. Not trying to start an argument by saying development/"progress" is good or bad; it's just probably what's caused that stretch of stream to be in the condition it is.

 

[Bamboozle]

Habitat changes aside...

In the decades I've fished Section 8 (the former Heritage Stretch) of the Little Lehigh, almost 100% of the fish I caught were stockers and the same goes for everyone I fished with or witnessed catching fish.

Are the nay-sayers implying the "good old days" were all about lots & lots of wild fish??

If not, doesn't a lack of stocking in that section sort of explain things??

If the stockers are what everyone remembers so fondly, maybe folks should petition the PFBC to take Section 8 off of the Class A list and start stocking it again...

 

[lestrout]

Habitat changes aside...

In the decades I've fished Section 8 (the former Heritage Stretch) of the Little Lehigh, almost 100% of the fish I caught were stockers and the same goes for everyone I fished with or witnessed catching fish.

Are the nay-sayers implying the "good old days" were all about lots & lots of wild fish??

If not, doesn't a lack of stocking in that section sort of explain things??

If the stockers are what everyone remembers so fondly, maybe folks should petition the PFBC to take Section 8 off of the Class A list and start stocking it again...

A lot of the big stockies back in the 70s when the hanging walk bridges were still there were releases from the nursery. Any good sized rain added a bunch.

 

[afishinado]

Habitat changes aside...

In the decades I've fished Section 8 (the former Heritage Stretch) of the Little Lehigh, almost 100% of the fish I caught were stockers and the same goes for everyone I fished with or witnessed catching fish.

Are the nay-sayers implying the "good old days" were all about lots & lots of wild fish??

If not, doesn't a lack of stocking in that section sort of explain things??

If the stockers are what everyone remembers so fondly, maybe folks should petition the PFBC to take Section 8 off of the Class A list and start stocking it again...

Agree. In the "good old days" in the 80's & 90's most trout were hatchery fish.

In fact I remember standing on the bank near the hatchery next to a drainage pipe and every once in a while I would see a trout come flying out the pipe into the stream.😄 Plus there was a "stocking" during a high water event. The hatchery now has fixed many of these issues.

Anyway, I'm sure there are harder to catch wild brown trout in the section now, and no where near as many trout in the section like back in he day.

I will agree the Little Lehigh as a whole is a shadow of the stream it once was because of development, siltation, riparian cover being removed along its banks as well as water being drawn form the stream.

 

[JeffK]

I fished LL back in the 70's but I was a newbie fly person back then so experiences of that period don't count. Started back again about 2000. There were always numbers of wild browns, but most were in the 6" to 12" range. Still are a fair amount of them. They are tricky to fool and can spit a fake out in a microsecond, so aren't easy to hook as well as fool. Always felt better catching a 11" wild brown than an 18" stocked rainbow. This summer caught a moderate amount of wild looking browns about 6" - 9" or so. Most wild looking browns in buckets or slots in riffly water - below 78 bridge ratio wild/stocked fish seems better. They don't seem to want to compete with stockies in the big pools, although some do. Bigger browns up to 18" - 20" as well, but few or none I thought were wild.

My pattern in past years was to fish the Heritage stretch in prime spring season April through early June since the other sections were mobbed with bait fishermen. Then when tricos started I would fish the lower sections since few fly guys ventured down there and had pods of rising fish all to myself and Section 8 was mobbed with fly fishermen. Always lots of wild browns down there since I think most bait guys didn't really catch them. With less sophisticated fly fishermen to harass the wild browns they seemed more willing to take as well IMHO. Then the lower sections below became shallow and silted, making fish fewer and tougher to approach so I stopped heading to the LL. Plus, I had a few years when I was tired of fishing size 22/24 flies. For past three years been fishing section 8 frequently with a buddy who is a regular and I upped my midging, sunk spinner and nymphing game with good results. This last summer was the first I didn't have any trico spinner dry fishing. Still hit sunk trico spinners well, but didn't have any dry action. And this week was as slow as I have seen it.