What where they eating

[Ed007]

I was fishing Neshannock crek yesterday and did not do very good. I could see trout in a slow pool flashing to where you could see therir sides and part of their belly. I tried just about every pattern i had, hares ear, pheasant tails, midges, wax worms, egg patterns and stones. I could not get them to hit on anything. When you see trout flash like that, are they eating a bug on the bottom? If so, how do you tell what they are eating. I did not see any hatches and i tried a seine net kicking up some rocks to see what was in the water. The few bugs i found did not produce fish. The water was a good clarity though it was probably a little cold. I'm pretty sure i was getting a good drift. Any help on what to do when you see trout do that would be appreciated.

 

[SteveG]

At this time of year, probably small midges or olives. Since it was a slow pool, and with low water temps, getting a decent drift could've been the culprit.

 

[Swattie87]

Fish in that situation...Slow, clear pool in Winter time, holding near the bottom but clearly feeding on something particular, are darn near impossible to catch in my experience. It's very difficult to match everything perfectly, and get a perfect drift in that scenario. The fish have all day to see the imperfections in your presentation, and it doesn't take much for them to figure out a phony.

Try to concentrate on fishing the heavier riffle areas and deeper runs with more current. Less fish will hold there in Winter than when it's warmer, but fish still do, and those ones will be far easier to catch. Even in Winter, in the heavier water, you don't need to be too particular. Standard attractor type nymphs/junk flies, and sloppy technique will work...I should know.

 

[HopBack]

Are you sure they were trout? Sounds like a pod of suckers to me but trout do mix in with them so you never know.

 

[Ed007]

I thought I was getting a decent drift but you are probably right about the drift and slow water. The only one I got out of that hole was on stripping a bugger, which I thought was kinda weird for that time of year.

 

[Ed007]

I'm pretty sure they were trout. In the shallower edge of the pull I got a pretty good look at them. You never know though, it could have been suckers.

 

[Swattie87]

Ed007 wrote:
The only one I got out of that hole was on stripping a bugger, which I thought was kinda weird for that time of year.

Funny you say that. That's more often how I get a bite or catch a fish in that situation too, as opposed to trying to figure out what they're actually eating and getting a perfect presentation. You'll often get a reaction strike the first time through with the streamer. You either catch that fish, or miss it, but then the fish know what the streamer is and ignore it after that.

 

[troutbert]

HopBack wrote:
Are you sure they were trout? Sounds like a pod of suckers to me but trout do mix in with them so you never know.

I also think most of the fish were probably not trout. Probably either suckers or fallfish.

 

[redietz]

troutbert wrote:

I also think most of the fish were probably not trout. Probably either suckers or fallfish.

Even if they were fallfish or suckers, if he'd matched the food source, he should have taken some fish. In fact, if what you're doing can't catch a fallfish, it probably won't catch a trout, either.

I often see trout flashing when eating underwater (and I can usually catch them if I do.)

Sometimes a dead drift isn't what the fish are looking (of course often it is.) Olive nymphs, for example, are active swimmers. And tight line nymph anglers seem to do alright without overly concerning themselves with a dead drift.

He didn't say what size flies he was using. When in doubt, go smaller. Try different depths. Try a moving fly. As long as he was still seeing flashes, the fish were still feeding.

 

[PennKev]

troutbert wrote:

HopBack wrote:
Are you sure they were trout? Sounds like a pod of suckers to me but trout do mix in with them so you never know.

I also think most of the fish were probably not trout. Probably either suckers or fallfish.

I agree.

I have plenty of experience fishing Neshannock and rolling fish in slower water are almost always suckers. Yes, trout will sometimes hold among the suckers and can be caught, but the fish that are rolling are almost always suckers and they can be nearly impossible to fair hook at times. Also, there are no fallfish in Neshannock, but there are some smaller chubs and shiners that can be caught.

Given the warmer temps recently I would have moved on and fished faster water. In fact, faster water would have been my first choice unless it is bitter cold.

 

[Ed007]

I agree that if I matched the food source I would have hooked a few of whatever the fish were. I was mainly using size 18 to 22 flies on 6x tippet. I was only dead drifting maybe a swimming retrieve would have been the ticket

 

[PennKev]

Ed007 wrote:
I agree that if I matched the food source I would have hooked a few of whatever the fish were. I was mainly using size 18 to 22 flies on 6x tippet. I was only dead drifting maybe a swimming retrieve would have been the ticket

You are assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that what you saw was feeding behavior.

 

[chrism80]

Either way i wouldn't feel bad i was up there Yesterday and didn't even get a bite or even see anyone catch a thing. Which is odd as i have not had a day like that there in a very long time.

 

[MKern]

I too think its odd to see multiple belly-flashes from rolling trout. Especially if its a silver flash because stockers from last year shouldn't still be that shiny and wild fish are definitely not that shiny.

Of course I am skeptical, because every time I hear someone say "I see them rolling out there," I usually follow that up with an eye roll.

If it was trout I would propose the removal of parasites and not feeding behavior.

I do think tossing a streamer and trying to trigger a strike in colder water is a good winter technique.

 

[redietz]

MKern wrote:
I too think its odd to see multiple belly-flashes from rolling trout. Especially if its a silver flash because stockers from last year shouldn't still be that shiny and wild fish are definitely not that shiny.

Yes, wild trout can be surprisingly shiny when they roll.

I was fishing Gunpowder Falls on Monday (all wild browns) and targeting those flashes. I did quite well.

 

[Tups]

Second Mr. Dietz on that. I was in Mr Kerns neighborhood last wkend observing deep shiny flashes and also did fairly well with wild browns. They took a deeply sunk orange soft hackle and a purple SH, also fished deep.

 

[redietz]

Just to it clear, by "flash" I don't mean something like a gleam off a mirror. Rather, when a trout rolls, it exposes its lighter underside, and will suddenly be much much more visible than it was when upright. Over a hundred years ago, Skues called it the "brown wink" and used it to discern when a fish had taken his nymph.

 

[Tups]

Yes, the “little brown wink under water” is not like a shiny flash from a mirror. But to me it is not brown but pale in color, almost white, and sudden, so that it catches your eye. These were wild brown trout in 2 feet of water against a dark stream bed, under a broken surface, so I would not have seen them but for their winking under water.

I took this winking to be feeding behavior because they took my flies. But I am at a loss as to what they might have been eating, though I could speculate.

 

[Mike]

The fish that I have seen roll like that with a brief flash have always been suckers when I could identify them, and I have pretty much assumed that they were suckers when I could not get a good look at them for ID purposes. I also thought that they were probably trying to scrape off parasites, as mkern mentioned. If trout were flashing, I would still have leaned toward parasite removal, but I could have been wrong.

I have watched a hogsucker wedging its head under rocks seeking macroinvertebrates. A Smallmouth bass lined up behind the sucker and ate the macros that the sucker knocked loose but missed. I would think that trout would do the same thing at times. Predators are opportunists.

 

[MKern]

I know it has been mentioned before, but if you see suckers, fish deep because there are trout mixed in. Like Mike said, predators are opportunistic.

Especially in early spring when the suckers are in the shallows spawning. I have witnessed trout nudging suckers to try to encourage eggs to drop.
Sucker spawn drifted through the pod almost always works.