What State Has the Most Spring Creeks?

[jifigz]

Just out of curiosity, what state/s do you think has either the largest number of spring/limestone streams or the most miles of these types of water? I love these streams and I am wondering where the largest concentration lies because I frankly have no idea. Does the west have an ample supply or are most of their waters mountain fed by rain/snowmelt?

 

[troutbert]

I don't know, but my guess is Wisconsin.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

+1

 

[jifigz]

I wouldn't have guessed that. I'm assuming that Wisonsin also has some fine trout fishing then too?

 

[Fishidiot]

jifigz wrote:
I wouldn't have guessed that. I'm assuming that Wisonsin also has some fine trout fishing then too?

Yes, it does. It shares with Iowa a region known as The Driftless Region which has many small limestone streams. They're not world famous like many of our creeks, but there are a lot of them.

It's a very difficult question to answer ultimately: you'd need to get a solid definition of a "spring creek" (here in PA we know Letort is a spring creek, but what about Breeches or Little Juniata?). Aside from a definition, you'd also have to consider total mileage of flowing water, vs. specific streams. A good example of this dilemma would be Spring Creek in Centre County - probably a "spring creek" - but Bald Eagle into which it flows is usually not considered a spring creek, but actually is below the confluence.

Speaking very broadly, I'd guess that PA probably has the highest mileage of spring creeks in the East and would certainly rival any other state in the country. We have a tremendous amount of flowing water in PA and much of it can qualify as limestone or a spring creek.

 

[klingy]

One difference between PA spring creeks and many Midwestern spring creeks is the volume of water in the creeks. In general, they are smaller than in PA. Many of the Driftless area creeks fish well until about this time of year when the tall grasses on either bank often cover much of the stream, making it difficult to land a cast in the water. I think there may be more creeks by quantity, but a true spring creek the size of Letort or Spring is a true rarity out there.

 

[lineman]

Not sure about the number of spring creeks, but the bureau of tourism claims 86,000 miles of streams and rivers in PA. Don't know how accurate that is, but in total moving water that has to rank near the top one would think.

 

[1fish]

If I had to guess, I would say Florida. High water table and plenty of limestone.

 

[Dcap240]

^ 1 fish is right it's Florida. But I'm guessing that you want to know which state has the most fishable spring creeks with trout pops. I'm not sure about that but I would think that Pa is high on that list.

 

[Chaz]

Joe Armstrong found between 400 and 500 Spring Creeks in PA.

 

[jifigz]

Actually the tidbit about Florida is very surprising to me and I suppose answers my question perfectly. I was more interested in streams with trout, but I find the florida bit to be fascinating. If a small limestone/spring creek can run around 55° here during the dog days of summer, why couldn't it support trout in Florida? Even taking into consideration Florida's sweltering heat wouldn't the water still be able to stay below 70°? So why no trout?

 

[troutbert]

Here's a groundwater temperature map for the USA.

http://www.hotspotenergy.com/heat-recovery-performance/groundwater-temperature-map.php

Runs about 48-52 in PA.

About 70-77 in FL.

 

[dryflyguy]

I was surprised at the number of springs in florida.
My wife and I checked a few of them out during a two week vacation there last winter.
But they are everywhere - from the top of the state, and running practically down to the everglades.
Even though they're too warm for trout, 70 degree water would feel quite refreshing when it's 90-100 degrees air temp

As for trouty springs, my guess would still be PA.
Although there a lot of spring runs feeding the Potomac River in Maryland. And I'm guessing that state would be ranked quite high too

 

[troutbert]

According to a TU document, there about 600 spring creeks and about 4500 miles of trout water in the Driftless Area.

Of that, WI has the most stream mileage, followed by MN, then IA.

 

[pcray1231]

Troutbert is right in the difficulty of defining a "spring creek". It's rare that a stream is purely a spring creek. It's also rare that it's purely not.

Even our freestoners are fed by springs. Just hundreds of very small ones spread out over a large area. And our limestoners may be mainly fed by large limestone springs, but everything picks up some runoff, and most pick up a handful of small freestone springs and tribs as they progress.

Aside from limestoners, NW PA has it's own area that the last glaciation missed, and actually piled up sediment there. It's not limestone, but it does lead to larger, colder springs like that. It's in the SE Erie County, western Warren County area around Corry.

By any measure, PA has to rank right up there.

Anyway, yeah, Florida has tons of true limestone springs, it's just that ground temps are too warm for trout there. I've snorkeled in a few of those springs and they are pretty cool. Wintertime hotspots for manatees.

Texas has quite a few limestone springs as well.

 

[troutbert]

pcray1231 wrote:
Troutbert is right in the difficulty of defining a "spring creek".

That was FishIdiot, not me. In post #5.

 

[salmonoid]

jifigz wrote:
Actually the tidbit about Florida is very surprising to me and I suppose answers my question perfectly. I was more interested in streams with trout, but I find the florida bit to be fascinating. If a small limestone/spring creek can run around 55° here during the dog days of summer, why couldn't it support trout in Florida? Even taking into consideration Florida's sweltering heat wouldn't the water still be able to stay below 70°? So why no trout?

The temperature of the water from a limestone spring is going to approximate the average year-round temperature in a region. The air temperature in a limestone cave will do the same thing. 52 degrees (plus or minus one) is the average temperature for PA, so a spring creek that is running at 55 degrees is getting good doses of groundwater from springs. I know of one stream in PA that I've never measured a temperature above 58 degrees, and at times, that was after several days of sweltering heat.

Pretty much all of Florida is underlain by limestone, and since the average temperature is higher there, no trout could survive. Sinkholes naturally occur in karst terranes, but their abundance can increase when human development causes the water table to be drawn down.

This graphic shows the distribution of limestone (or technically soluble bedrock, so may include dolomite or calcareous shale or sandstone) across the US.

Full size here.

 

[DaveKile]

Salmonid,

Nice find on the map. Always enjoy a some geospatial visual eye candy. Did a little digging and also found this pdf map which shares the exposed and buried Carbonate Rocks.

 

[RLeep2]

A lot of the WI/MN/IA Driftless streams carry a significantly higher volume of water than is evident from their appearance. I found this out when I started nosing around in some of the unimproved sections. Probably the single biggest reason for this disparity between their volume and apparent size is all the habitat enhancement work that has been done on most of them, work that tends to narrow and deepen them but make them appear smaller. I can think of at least 10 or more right off the top of my head that grow to the size of Fishing Creek at the bottom of the Narrows or Spring Creek just above the Logan Br. Junction. In general though, the “average” Driftless stream is smaller than the average “name” PA limestone. Although I’m not so sure how true this would be if PA were actively reclaiming the many small but pretty degraded limestones that are fairly common particularly in Central and Southcentral Pennsylvania. This is one of the main things I got from Armstrong’s book; how many of these streams there apparently are.