What about the Hook?

[Sylvaneous]

With all the nuances of fly tying: UV dubbing, cast rubber nymph legs, eyes on bead heads. Perfectly accurate wings.... do we ever give any thought to how un natural the giant steel barbed D!C# coming out of the bottom of a dry fly? How excellent do our ties have to be when they all have this feature? Amazing they ever take any of our dries.
Syl

 

[tomgamber]

Are suggesting you'd get way more strikes by tying on a bare straight shaft? Possibly. The rub is that the hook is the constant. The necessary evil. It's what happens after the hook. Every rapala lure, meal worm and salmon egg has a hook too. If the hook were a deterrent, most midges wouldn't work at all.

That's all i got . Carry on.

 

[JimNovo]

Does anyone tie upside down dries to avoid this? Something like this pic.
Do they float correctly?
Do they work?

 

[wildtrout2]

Don't know how well it would float, but it is an interesting tie.

I'm thinking top heavy now.

 

[dryflyguy]

I tied some Green Drakes in that style.
Looked great. Floated OK.
But I had trouble hooking fish - even though I used #10 hooks.
I chalked them up as a disappointment, and never tied them again.

Addressing the OP's point -

I don't think that the hook point sticking down bothers the fish much.
It's a relatively small feature of the fly.

We've all seen fish ingest small pebbles and sticks, and spit them back out when it realizes it's not quite what it wants to eat.

But I do believe different patterns can make a difference

 

[Sylvaneous]

Are suggesting you'd get way more strikes by tying on a bare straight shaft? Possibly. The rub is that the hook is the constant. The necessary evil. It's what happens after the hook. Every rapala lure, meal worm and salmon egg has a hook too. If the hook were a deterrent, most midges wouldn't work at all.

That's all i got . Carry on.

Yeah, that's the point, "Why?" When they look carefully at our presentation in smooth water and we're like "nah, need an ORANGE sulfur this time of year." Maybe it saw the gigantic hook, not some missed nuance like exact wing size or contour or anything else or whatever.

 

[Sylvaneous]

Does anyone tie upside down dries to avoid this? Something like this pic.
Do they float correctly?
Do they work?View attachment 1641227854

I have trouble getting FRIKKIN parachutes to not flop on their side. THis? I wouldn't even dare!

 

[Sylvaneous]

I tied some Green Drakes in that style.
Looked great. Floated OK.
But I had trouble hooking fish - even though I used #10 hooks.
I chalked them up as a disappointment, and never tied them again.

Addressing the OP's point -

I don't think that the hook point sticking down bothers the fish much.
It's a relatively small feature of the fly.

We've all seen fish ingest small pebbles and sticks, and spit them back out when it realizes it's not quite what it wants to eat.

But I do believe different patterns can make a difference

It's a relatively small feature of the fly. Ummm.... I'd say not. I'd say that they take the fly regardless of such an anomaly. Just goes to show all that piddling what-not that we buy and believe makes a difference, certainly doesn't. When Euroymphers knock em dead with essentially some olive coloration on a hook shank topped with a bead. WITH a giant harpoon penis... Dude. it REALLY doesn't matter what you fish. (of course this isn't true, but just about!)

 

[dryflyguy]

It's a relatively small feature of the fly. Ummm.... I'd say not. I'd say that they take the fly regardless of such an anomaly. Just goes to show all that piddling what-not that we buy and believe makes a difference, certainly doesn't. When Euroymphers knock em dead with essentially some olive coloration on a hook shank topped with a bead. WITH a giant harpoon penis... Dude. it REALLY doesn't matter what you fish. (of course this isn't true, but just about!)

You obviously haven’t fished the Letort or Delaware River

 

[tomgamber]

I think you're giving the trout more credit than they deserve.

 

[dryflyguy]

I think you're giving the trout more credit than they deserve.

Have you fished the Delaware?

 

[tomgamber]

Are you suggesting trout on the D have a larger brain than other fish?

 

[redietz]

It's a relatively small feature of the fly. Ummm.... I'd say not. I'd say that they take the fly regardless of such an anomaly. Just goes to show all that piddling what-not that we buy and believe makes a difference, certainly doesn't. When Euroymphers knock em dead with essentially some olive coloration on a hook shank topped with a bead. WITH a giant harpoon penis... Dude. it REALLY doesn't matter what you fish. (of course this isn't true, but just about!)

I've caught fish on a bare hook before.

 

[redietz]

With all the nuances of fly tying: UV dubbing, cast rubber nymph legs, eyes on bead heads. Perfectly accurate wings.... do we ever give any thought to how un natural the giant steel barbed D!C# coming out of the bottom of a dry fly? How excellent do our ties have to be when they all have this feature? Amazing they ever take any of our dries.
Syl

Fish are looking for reasons to accept a fly, not for reasons to reject it. If it has all the features it needs to trigger a feeding response, it doesn't matter if it has extra features.

 

[dryflyguy]

Are you suggesting trout on the D have a larger brain than other fish?

I'm saying that they're highly selective, from the crazy amount of fishing pressure the river receives

 

[dryflyguy]

I have trouble getting FRIKKIN parachutes to not flop on their side. THis? I wouldn't even dare!

The flies I tied in that style did tend to land wrong and lay on their side.
But when they did float right, the fish hit them well.
Again though, very few hook ups for me

 

[tomgamber]

So you're saying a fish with a brain the size and weight of a pea is able to outsmart a human with a 3 lb brain? This is what makes fly-fishing fun.

 

[dryflyguy]

So you're saying a fish with a brain the size and weight of a pea is able to outsmart a human with a 3 lb brain? This is what makes fly-fishing fun.

I was initially responding to Syl's post #8, where he stated that for the most part, patterns don't really matter.
Anyone who has fished the Big D knows better.

Caucci and Nastasi developed comparadun style of flies, because the selective fish there wouldn't hit traditional patterns.

You can talk pea size brain all you want.
Those fish up there can humble even the best anglers

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Trout can be selective ,or not. I recall one Jam where the trout in Spring Creek wanted sulfurs with pink in them .Any other fly was ignored.
Then there is the old beat up fly that kills the fish when a fresh one gets ignored. Maybe its not the fly, but the curse of the drag monster? Or a shinny leader? A bulky knot? Who knows, maybe it's the scent from you hands on the fly? GG
I have more stories on this mostly from my journeys in the salty realm.

 

[dryflyguy]

There is an old theory that fish sometimes key in on crippled flys - reasoning that they're a surer and easier prey.
And that may well be.
However, I can't bring myself to keep fishing a fly that's beat up.
Once something starts falling apart, I change it