Wading Boots

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My Simm's wading boots are starting to fall apart and it's time to replace them. Shoe Goo works for a while. I really liked these boots for the fit and the quality. I may have spent $150 a number of years ago. I think I got my money's worth. My only complaint about them was with the grip. They have the Vibram soles and without some kind of spikes, I could not navigate the freestone streams that I fish. So, I am forced to replace the spikes about every 3 or 4 trips as they wear out quickly. I have tried a few different brands of spikes. The latest is Goat Head. As I said, they work great for about 3 or 4 trips and then it's like being on ice skates. And they're not cheap. I put 12 in each shoe. So that takes up most of the box of 30 that goes for $18 from Fish USA. So I'm looking for options. Pategonia makes the Foot Tractor with the aluminum bars on the soles. Sounds like a good idea. Speaking of not cheap, they go for $550 a pair. Not sure I want to invest that much. Is there anything better than what I have already been wearing at a reasonable price?
Thanks
 
Korkers devil canyon. They make a variety of interchangeable soles. Some of there big carbide studs will get you traction in places you didnt think was possible.
 
I'm really surprised you're only getting 3 or 4 trips outs of your studs.
Is that typical? I've gone about 6 mos., or 10-12 trips with my Kold Kutters and haven't noticed any problems at all.
 
I'm surprised he's getting the studs to stay in for 4 or 5 trips. Mine would just keep falling out non stop. Just too much torque being put on them.

I have Korker Wraptrs and LOVE them!
 
My experience is that studs either fall out, or they don't. If I put them in, any that are going to fall out will do so on day #1. If it lasts a day, they ain't goin anywhere.

I've worn out studs in 1 day before. I've also had them last a year. Depends what kind of fishing you are doing. Walking long distances on hard, flat surfaces, like concrete or big flat rocks wears them out in short order. If you're more of a big stream fisherman where you wade out and don't move all that much, on dirt or gravel surfaces, they last a long time.
 
There are a few things at play here.

Two different issues >

1. Studs pulling out of soles

2. Studs wearing down

As far as #1 > studs pulling out of soles. The soles of wading boots are of different composition materials. I have had studs in some of my boots stay in for the lifetime of the boot without ever losing any or many studs. The soles were the Vibram brand, but they also make many different soles that may or may not hold studs very well. The composition of sole material for your wading boots being too soft to hold studs is likely one of the biggest issues guys have losing studs.

Also, many guys I've observed run the studs in with a power drill and over tighten them, effectively stripping and reaming out the hole. This also causes one to lose their studs frequently. I run them in with a drill only partially and hand tighten them firmly being careful not to strip them reaming out the hole.

As far as #2 studs wearing down > I've successfully used sheet metal screws as studs on my wading boots. The downside is they wear down rather quickly. No real problem since they are cheap and can be replaced. I usually just left them in and installed a new stud next to the worn stud.

The hardened studs last a lot longer, but are far more expensive. Also they are made with sharp edges to penetrate into the substrate and give more traction. I've heard a lot of guys having success with the kold kutter studs made for tires which are cheaper when bought in bulk.
 
Yeah, I use 3/8 Kold Kutters. I think I paid 20 bucks for 250 of them. They hold well in the soles of my Redington boots, and continue to bite well into the freestone streams I fish.
I acknowledge I probably do not fish as hard as some others. Most of my trout fishing doesn't require a long hike to & from the water so I'm not logging a lot of miles on them.
 
Finding a shoe that fits well and holds up to what you put it through is the biggest battle.

IF you feel you got your money's worth out of your Simms and the only issue is the durability of the studs, buy the same shoe and just try a different stud.

BTW - Goat Head studs are hardened stainless steel. If you want durability, you want carbide, not “hardened steel”. That means NO Ice Studs, Gold Ice Screws, Kold Cutters, Regular Chota STL Studs or hardware store sheet metal screws.

AND, aluminum bars are NOT the answer for every place either, they wear out FAST, suck for long hikes or walks and aren’t cheap to replace and some are NOT replaceable.

In regards to studs I have tried EVERY and I mean every stud out there, but rather than bore you with all the details, (which I have done several times before on this board) I’ll recommend two studs to address the two problems outlined by Afisinado, wear and pull-out:

Orvis Posi-Grip, which have threads like regular sheet metal screws. I’ve had the same set on my Chota STL’s for YEARS. NOT cheap, but they are a great stud with great bite!!

Grip Studs, they will NOT pull out and are carbide tipped. The ONLY thing I use in plain felt and in the plain rubber-bottomed Muck Boots I use for bank fishing and shallow wading. They’re also NOT cheap, but they make a stud that will work in anything you got and will send you samples to make sure you pick the right stud.

Another thing, proper installation is everything. Besides the hand tightening recommendation, you want a screw with MINIMAL threads per inch, because the screw is cutting the thread in plastic, rubber or felt and the more threads, the more cutting, the more likelihood for cross threading; all of which mean the more likely it will pull out.

Also, IF you find stud you like and it wears out, replace it with the same stud or one with at least the same screw diameter, thread pitch and threads per inch and TRY and start the screw in the old hole with minimum torque. The last thing you want to do in a plastic, rubber or felt bottom is cut MORE threads in an old hole.

Finally, a properly installed stud should NOT stick out so far that when you walk, you are only walking on studs. A stud SHOULD be recessed so that you are getting grip from the stud AND the sole material. If the studs stick out too far they break more easily, make your feet sore, wear out faster and make your shoes slippery as heck when the studs wear smooth. If you recess your studs, you will notice a HUGE difference.

Good luck!

 
agree with bamboozle. afish's comment about over tightening is spot on IMO. I lost very few studs with vibram soles.
 
I want to thank all you guys for your responses. Two really useful tips.
Bamboozle replied...
"Goat Head studs are hardened stainless steel. If you want durability, you want carbide, not “hardened steel”. That means NO Ice Studs, Gold Ice Screws, Kold Cutters, Regular Chota STL Studs or hardware store sheet metal screws. "
So I will look into the two carbide tipped studs.
and...
"Finally, a properly installed stud should NOT stick out so far that when you walk, you are only walking on studs. A stud SHOULD be recessed so that you are getting grip from the stud AND the sole material. If the studs stick out too far they break more easily, make your feet sore, wear out faster and make your shoes slippery as heck when the studs wear smooth. If you recess your studs, you will notice a HUGE difference."
Wow, slippery as heck, that really describes my experience.
Thanks Again to all.
 
"Finally, a properly installed stud should NOT stick out so far that when you walk, you are only walking on studs. A stud SHOULD be recessed so that you are getting grip from the stud AND the sole material. If the studs stick out too far they break more easily, make your feet sore, wear out faster and make your shoes slippery as heck when the studs wear smooth. If you recess your studs, you will notice a HUGE difference."
Wow, slippery as heck, that really describes my experience.
Thanks Again to all.

I want to give you fair warning on something else, despite the great wear characteristics, carbide studs can get slippery as they start to lose their bite on really hard rocks, meaning rocks with a high quartz content. They are so hard that as they wear smooth, they won't bite as well in something that is also really hard.

That why I like the Orvis Posi-Grip studs so much. The design provides maximum bite, even as they start to wear.

However, if you fish stream bottoms like that frequently and have issues, try swapping a FEW of the carbide studs for something made of hardened steel. Yea they will wear out faster, but it's better than falling.

No stud is perfect for every location which is why I have tried so many, but getting the studs to not protrude too far makes a BIG difference regardless of what they are made of.
 
I'm totally sold on the aluminum bars. The fact that we have these threads about studs on a yearly basis is just further proof that most stud systems are lacking.

The aluminum bars, while wearing faster than steel or carbide, are far less hassle and much better performance. Are they perfect? No, nothing is. Is the extra cost worth it? Abso-freaking-lutely.

If you must go with screw in studs, choose a boot that has hard, non-rubber mounting points for the studs and don't use power tools to install them. Boots that rely on just a rubber sole to hold the studs are bound to dissapoint.
 
I bought the old style foot tractor boots on close out earlier this year.
And really like them. Better traction, and more comfortable, than any other wading boots I've used : lug sole, felt sole, and studs.
You still might be able to find some for sale somewhere.

Other than that, you're probably looking at studded boots for the best traction.

I tried adding Simms hard bite studs to my old felt sole Patagonia boots. And they worked pretty well for about two years, and finally wore down. And they're not cheap - $30 for a 20 pack.

Think I'll try the Orvis Posi - grip studs next time
 
I did the same thing DFG, bought size 11 and they were too small so i exchanged for 12. After a few trips now i think they have stretched a bit but its nothing a second pair of socks wont fix.

I was thinking about replacing the laces with something a bit beefier but i am concerned new laces wont slide into the locking cleat things (which are awesome btw that the laces wont slide once you pull them tight and click them in) on the upper parts of the boots. Are you still using the orignal laces?

What type of waders are you using them with? I have an old cabelas pair that i am looking to replace sooner than later
 
Timmy,

I got size 12 foot tractors also (wear size 11 shoe)
They seem to be a bit wider than other wading boots I've worn.
And were kinda loose fitting, even with a thick sock.
So , I put in another insole to take up the space. And they're fine.
Still better to have them a little big larger, than too tight.
And they'll likely shrink a bit after the first year or two - like all the other boots I've tried.

I've had no problems with the original laces. They're just like the ones on my old patagonia light weight boots. Been using them for 3 years now, and haven't had any breaks yet.

I wear Simms waders. They're the only ones that last for me
 
I've tried studs at varying points and have never been completely happy with them. While I do think they improve traction over unstudded rubber soles MOST of the time in MOST scenarios, they are less predictable and downright dangerous IMO when they do slide.

With rubber alone, I can feel and tell when I'm low traction scenarios and adjust how cautious I am accordingly. In those scenarios when I do fall, I'm prepared for it, and it's usually relatively minor, controlled falls, usually onto my butt. You can essentially just sit down in the stream to avoid the fall...You get a little wet, but you don't get hurt.

The times I've fallen with studs in have been train wrecks, because I wasn't expecting it. I'd been having consistently good traction, so I'm not being as careful, and I hit a big flat rock that the studs don't bite into, and down you go. Those kind of falls can get you all contorted and who knows how you're going to land or what you're going to hit.

I'd rather wade more cautiously and accept more of the minor, controlled falls without studs, as opposed to fewer, but more major falls with them. Maybe part of it is a mid 30's mentality vs. a mid 20's mentality, but I don't have any problem skipping over a fishy looking spot that's too tough to wade to any more either.
 
My current wading boots are approaching their last days, so based on what I read here, I ordered a pair of the older model of the Patagonia Foot Tractor wading boots before they are sold out everywhere.

This thread, along with the "tough wading" thread on here makes me feel a lot better about my wading. It proves to me I'm not the only one that finds wading difficult at times and proves I'm not really a wimp (or maybe I just join all you other wimps on here).

Back-in-the-day I was a very aggressive wader. Now I'm a lot more cautious. In fact, in the last year or two finally I have relented on my aversion to carry a wading staff on all the bigger rivers and streams and the difficult wading places.

I have not yet received my Foot Tractors. When I do I'll post what I think about them in this thread.
 
IN THE SAME BOAT!

I just wrote a long email to Simms about how poor this edition of the Freestone is treating me. I've had 4 pairs of Freestones and 1 pair of the Vapors. The Freestone boot holds up remarkable - I could still probably wear the same boot from 8 years ago if it wasn't for the soul degradation.

This edition is so bad its unreal they made it to production!!!

The Vibram bottoms on most of their boots they released this year are so worthless I can't stand up in an inch of water. I, like you, wear down studs in about 3 trips and have to replace them (if they haven't already fallen out). If you don't use something like Loctite after the first studs wear it is like the slots become stripped and no studs will stay.

My gripe to Simms was if I pay 160$ for wading boots, they should be at least adequate without studs OR they should include studs.

I'm 34 and no I can't wade like I'm 24, but I can still maneuver pretty damn well, but these boots are giving me a complex that I'm completely losing my coordination. Thank God I can recover majority of the times I slip or I would have taken in some serious injuries in two months of wearing these.
 
If you think the current Vibram soles are bad, you shoulda tried the old Aquastealth soles Simms had. Me and another guy called them Aquadeath when we had those boots. The material wasn't very soft or grippy and the tread pattern and depth were pretty lame.
 
I still have an old pair of Bean boots with aqua stealth soles. Even with carbide studs, the traction is shaky at best.
They've become my "mud snail" boots now - using them only on spring creek, where the wading is quite easy IMO
 
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