Valley Creek’s History

[JasonC]

Anyone know for sure if Valley ever held a population of brook trout? Obviously this would have been before the spills and all. I mean, I can say without evidence that yes it did. Is there any documentation anywhere of this though?

 

[jacob]

Ahhhh I was very disappointed to see that this post was about brookies close to philly and not the history of valley forge.

Damn it Jason, you got me this time

Fool me once, I’m dumb.

Fool me twice / more? I need to grab my topo map and history books and redirect my comments.

 

[jacob]

I apologize for the sarcasm. I had a few beers in me last night when I posted a reply...

I have heard the same, but have never seen or heard of any solid evidence, nor have looked into it much. An old timer once told me that he knew someone who tried to stock brookies (illegally might I add) in valley years and years ago but they never took hold.

I’m just happy that there is a great population of wild browns there to provide plenty of quality angling opportunity.

 

[JasonC]

Same here. Being it is fertile enough today to support a wild population of trout, I would assume it would have been even better in the past when it was cleaner and untouched. Given that assumption, I’d bet there were brook trout all in that stream.

 

[troutbert]

It is nearly certain that there were native brook trout there, as with other wild trout streams in PA.

I've never read any history about brook trout in Valley Creek, but if you dig something up, I'd be interested in reading it.

You could check with reference librarians at the major libraries and historical societies, if Googling doesn't turn up anything.

 

[Mike]

The remnants remained in Crabby Ck until sometime in the 1990’s

 

[lestrout]

Re jacob's "An old timer once told me that he knew someone who tried to stock brookies (illegally might I add) in valley years and years ago but they never took hold." - several years ago, the VFTU and folks involved with the Crabby Creek watershed did a bunch of restoration work to protect a sewage pipe. I planted a bunch of trees as part of a work group. Part of the group caught a few dozen brookies in Chester County and transplanted them. Unfortunately, these did not take. I'm pretty sure all the correct permits and procedures were used for this project.

 

[jacob]

I’m not sure if we are talking about the same effort, but the way the guy said it made it sound like an individual who was doing unofficially; however, that is me making an assumption as I really don’t have any facts.

 

[Mike]

The Crabby Ck project was officially sanctioned. It was an attempt to restore habitat and the Brook Trout population that I described as having populated the stream in the 1980's and early 1990's or thereabouts. The original population was extirpated by stormwater runoff destroying the natural stream channel.

 

[7bridges]

Brook trout were certainly in most cold water streams in Pennsylvania including Valley Creek. Before settlement, timbering and population brook trout were the only trout native in Pennsylvania. Virgin forest shade kept the water just the right temperature all summer. Valley Creek must have been full of them. Brown trout were introduced to Pennsylvania much later. Have you ever wondered how brook trout are in most clean, cold forested streams in Pennsylvania? Native population (and I have heard that birds inadvertently deposit eggs from stream to stream.) Valley Creek was probably equal to every other limestone water in Penns Woods. To get an idea of the state of our waterways back then, read Pioneer Life Thirty Years a Hunter by Phillip Tome. (available on Kindle) Mr. Tome embellished a bit like most woodsmen, but it gives us an idea of what wildlife was like before Europeans civilized the countryside. Blessings

 

[poopdeck]

Yep. The Brook trout is the Pa state fish because of its abundance across the state not because of its abundance in the central part of the state. Valley certainly could have sustained brook trout and brown trout were not introduced into Pa until The 1880's.

Perhaps George Washington's troops ate them out of existence on Valley.

 

[Foxgap239]

I have no knowledge of brook trout in Valley and have never caught one and I do fish it quite often. I will however say that last year I did catch a tiger in Valley. I believe I have a picture at home but it completely shocked me when I landed him or her.

 

[JasonC]

There are no brook trout in Valley these days. But a tiger REALLY surprises me! Wonder how he got there?

 

[sarce]

Would love to see the picture Foxgap - that is pretty amazing to find one in there! How big was it? I'd hate to trigger a stocked vs wild debate, but I will say that once as a teenager I was fishing with my cousin on a section that I later discovered was private when the owner kicked me off. My cousin tossed a big jointed Rapala across a very large pool and connected with a giant trout. He landed it, and it was a 19" stocked rainbow. Just wondering if the same landowner may have tossed in a tiger at some point. The property was not far above where you frequent. This was 2009 or 2010 when this happened so not that long ago.

 

[tjsingle]

That’s interesting about the tiger trout and rainbow. I haven’t encountered anything other than the wild browns at Valley, maybe I will at some point. Hoping for pictures

 

[JasonC]

That’s very interesting. I’ve only encountered browns and I’ve inadvertently fished on a long stretch of private property.

 

[Foxgap239]

I'll try to find that picture when I get home but from memory, I would say maybe 6 or 7 inches, normal size for Valley.

Sarce, you are correct, it was caught in my normal haunt!

BTW, Sarce, great info for streams around Harman's. I caught wild brooks and rainbows in all 3 streams you suggested.

 

[sarce]

Glad to hear you found time to fish those streams!!

I can't imagine someone stocking a 6" tiger trout in Valley. Probably a wild fish then. THe question is how did it happen and I'm pretty baffled on this one.

My initial thought was one of the brookie plants in Crabby Cr a few years back did not find good holding water at adult size and headed downstream, all the way to Valley. Without finding other brookies, it had no choice but to spawn with a brown once fall came around. BUT, there's a huge problem with this theory...for the tiger trout to get upstream to where you caught it, it would have had to go over two large private dams, and I can't see that happening. I've been skeptical of what some call migration barriers on some streams but those two dams are unquestionably too tall to leap.

I think it leaves two possibilities.

1. there could be a tiny remnant brookie population hidden away somewhere in the watershed. It wouldn't be the first time that's been discovered recently in chester county. When they get down to very low numbers, they can be very hard to trace and just barely hang on for much longer than you might expect. Just a handful of adult fish moving in and out of various connected streams and occasionally getting a successful spawn to happen somewhere. It happens in the Gunpowder here in MD.

2. someone planted adult brookies and one spawned with a brown.

 

[Foxgap239]

I cannot find the darn picture. I can see it in my mind with a title of "Valley Tiger" but I either deleted or mis-filed it and will find it sometime in the future.

Anyway, shocked me too.

 

[PhillyFlyFish]

Check out the book “Living Waters: How to Save your trout stream” by Owen D. Owens. It documents the beginnings of VFTU and the history of Valley Creek and West Valley (and the tribs). Haven’t finished it but there was definitely a section on Brookies in West Valley. Assuming they would have inhabited Valley as well. I believe the Knickerbocker landfill was the downfall of west valley and valley. Easy read for about $6-$7 on amazon.