Tully Bugs

[geebee]

Hi Guys,

i spent a few hours yesterday on the Tully between Palisades islands and Rebers bridge and i saw a few bugs around, not sure what they were though :

1. about a size 18 - mayfly shape, white/pale wings in flight.
2. about a 16 - mayfly shape i think, rusty red in flight.
3. about a 14 - definite caddis, slate grey tented wings. resting on a reed.

as the afternoon dimmed, i did see a fish or two rise and aggressively take flies - caddis perhaps ?

i did swing streamers and dead drifted a partridge n orange but no luck.

in hindsight i should have swung a team of wets perhaps.

a gorgeous day on a really nice stream - flows were high by the bridge but looked just right up below the islands. easy wading too.

i look forward to getting to know it much better.

cheers

Mark.

 

[Oregon_Owl]

It is a fine stream close to an urban setting. When I fished they mostly stocked fingerlings. Always enjoyed the trico hatches.

Yes I would have swung a pair if wets. Would have weighted them, though.

Fall can bring high releases from the Army Corps.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Mark, check out the stream reports on TCOflyfishing.com They usually tell you whats up with the Tully bugs. Honestly, that stream is stupid with caddis so I rarely feel the need to fish anything else, but the midges in the early Spring, as well as the BWOs are pretty strong.

O_O, unfortunately the trico hatch should not be fished now, unless you plan on harvesting. The Tully gets too warm in the summer now as the cold water reserves in Blue Marsh do not last very long. The trout survive by finding cold water in places like where Cacoosing flows in...but jack-weeds stand there, rip them out of their cold water through the warm water, play them to death on 7x, and then release the trout back into the 76 degree water because they're good, ethical "Catch and Release" fly fishermen.

Anyway, vent over. I enjoy fishing the Tully in the late Fall and winter. Stocked, no spawning to worry about, and the fish are willing to take flies.

 

[Mike]

Sasquatch,
Given your description of C&R Angler behavior on the Tully in warm water conditions can you believe that there is once again a new push by some anglers to make the stream a C&R Stream instead of DH?

What makes C&R the way to go in a warm stream with relatively small coldwater refuge areas? As we have similarly discussed before in this forum, those areas are too small to support the Tully's stocked trout density, ie. the carrying capacity of the refuges is much less than that of the Tully DH Area when it's temps are cool leading into the summer. The limited harvest in the DH area prior to the fish seeking the refuges does the remaining fish a favor by reducing competition at the refuge sites. Frankly, I think the stream could use more rather than less harvest for this reason.

Mark, if you go there again this fall, I recommend concentrating your efforts from Rebers bridge to the Rt 222 bridge, as the stretch from Rebers Bridge up to Blue Marsh Dam was not stocked with adult trout this fall or last. It was stocked privately, however, with fin-clipped RT fingerlings last fall. So keep an eye out for adipose fin clipped fish....at least I think the adipose fin is the one that they clipped. Has anyone seen many of those fish on the end of their line this past spring or summer.

Oh, and by the way, I always do well on a red San Juan worm there. It is an organically enriched stream and with that problem the trout may be used to seeing the bright red Chironomid larvae (midge), which thrive in similar or even worse streams. Generally, they are found in the muck, black leaf mixture along stream perimeters.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Simple.

Keep it DH.

Stop stocking so many dang fish in a stream with limited cold water refuge areas when most anglers C&R anyways.

Move the remaining fish ABOVE the lake where that water is cool.

Make areas above the lake DH.

Expand the smallmouth program into the lower tully.

Problem solved.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Mike, I can only assume that push is based upon ignorance. the stream is not suited for a C&R trout fishery (as it stands right now).

If it's going to be C&R only, perhaps they should consider pushing for a closed season between say, July 1st and Sept. 15th or something like that. Then the trout could be left alone to find their own cold water refuge without these ethical anglers ripping them out of the refuges, until the water temps drop again in the Fall.

I doubt that's part of the proposal though...

 

[InCahoots]

Geebee, I fished the stream Tuesday near Rebers bridge and saw a few trout leaping out of the water for what I believe were small BWO's. Bright, mostly clear day. No luck fishing on top but I caught two of the nicest fish all season dead drifting an olive wooly bugger.

 

[outsider]

One issue that I don't see discussed on this forum is the illegal harvesting of trout in the delayed harvest area, which may skew the count of holdover fish. And it is very prevalent, particularly by bait fisherman that either choose to disobey the law or don't bother to read the signage.

I know this first-hand, as I live 15 minutes from the Tully and fish it on a regular basis. I typically inform them of their wrongdoing, and some pack up and leave quickly with their stringer of fish. If they don't, I pull out my cell phone and tell them I'm calling a Fish Commission hotline. Of course this is a veiled threat, but it works. Fact is, there aren't enough law enforcement officers to regularly patrol the stream. Sometimes, particularly early in trout season, you can walk the stream and count the number of empty bait containers left along the banks. Perhaps those that would like to see C&R feel this activity may be reduced.

 

[Mike]

Outsider: By their very nature, many violators are violators...period! The regs don't make a difference. Violators will find a way to skirt the regs....creative thinking in a negative way. That's one thing I have learned over time...the hard way. Case in point regarding the Tully DH Area: While surveying anglers...50 of them...I ran into two violators. One was a college age kid whose girlfriend had dropped him off at a stream where there were trout. He had no clue where he was; it would not have mattered what the regs were.. The other was a fly angler who was having a bad day so he started chumming with corn and placing corn on his nymphs. I stood immediately behind him as he baited his fly and landed a trout. I had interviewed him a day earlier and he even offered me a fly that was working for him.

 

[outsider]

Mike, perhaps the point you missed was perception (speculated on my part) by those who advocate C&R. They may think it will reduce illegal harvesting. Again, just a thought. But I think I may have a better pulse on poaching on the Tully than you, just because of the time I spent there (since the inception of the special regs).

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

So outsider, do you think the statewide creel survey numbers are skewed, due to poachers on the tully enough to be inaccurate?

Honestly,
It makes no difference. Stock 1000 and you have enough cold water refuge to support 500 trout. Stock 1000000 and you have enough refuge for 500.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I mean do you think the tullys average of harvest is higher than the statewide average due to poachers? Sorry

 

[outsider]

Not creel survey numbers, electro-shocking numbers, if this is how the PFC quantifies the survival rate in the Tully spec. regs. area. Do I think it is higher than state wide numbers specific to specially regulated areas? I know what I see there on a frequent basis vs. the more remote spec. reg. streams I frequently fish. The Tully is located in an urban area. I've even seen people throw cast nets there to snare trout en mass.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Ya but I'm asking you if you think the creel survey numbers apply to this watershed. Even remotely,or do you think there is much more harvest on the tully than other dh areas.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Ok never mind I see you answered my question.

I never really fish the lower tully. Personally it's my least favorite stream. In my limited experience there I have seen much poaching and unethical fishing. I do fish a number of other urban watersheds including some more so than the tully. I have never witnessed more unethical and ignorant behavior anywhere else than I do there.
It has to be affected by it.
I do think it's impact on the "extended season" is very little. Water temps, poor habitat and herons certainly take a higher toll.
Advocating for catch and release on this watershed is a joke until factors change, if ever.

I do however believe every watersheds impact on the creel survey is different, even urban vs urban streams. The study never takes these factors into account.

 

[McSneek]

Mike wrote:
Sasquatch,
Given your description of C&R Angler behavior on the Tully in warm water conditions can you believe that there is once again a new push by some anglers to make the stream a C&R Stream instead of DH?

What I CAN'T believe is how tone deaf the PAF&BC seems to be to anglers desires for C&R fishing. Maybe the Tully isn't the ideal stream for C&R but considering how many anglers seem to desire the opportunity to catch a fish more than once, why does the commission continue to send the message that a stocked trout is wasted if it's not immediately caught and "harvested?"

If not the Tully, why can't the commission look for other opportunities instead of constantly looking for more ways for people to catch and kill trout, stocked or otherwise?

 

[afishinado]

McSneek wrote:

Mike wrote:
Sasquatch,
Given your description of C&R Angler behavior on the Tully in warm water conditions can you believe that there is once again a new push by some anglers to make the stream a C&R Stream instead of DH?

What I CAN'T believe is how tone deaf the PAF&BC seems to be to anglers desires for C&R fishing. Maybe the Tully isn't the ideal stream for C&R but considering how many anglers seem to desire the opportunity to catch a fish more than once, why does the commission continue to send the message that a stocked trout is wasted if it's not immediately caught and "harvested?"

If not the Tully, why can't the commission look for other opportunities instead of constantly looking for more ways for people to catch and kill trout, stocked or otherwise?

Agreed ^. With regard to the Tully, I agree with current policy: adult stocking in spring and fall and DH regs for that stream.

We all know the FBC is behind the eight ball with funds for stocking. Given that, the logical way to move forward would to promote C&R. There are not enough fish to go around to allow open harvest in the vast majority of the stocked streams.

Recalling back to the trout fishing survey the FBC conducted a few years ago, the majority of anglers are in favor of fishing more special regulation areas for C&R / DH with higher numbers of fish for a longer time. Right now, SR are stocked less often than ever before.

The FBC often cites percentages indicating that the majority of anglers that practice C&R on the streams. That in itself is an indication of what anglers/license buyers/customers of the FBC want. They should go with the flow, IMO.

 

[Mike]

Outsider: I knew that perception was what you were driving at; I have heard that argument for years from Some Tully anglers. I'll be more direct with my response this time. The perception is wrong, and suggests that poachers care about regs.

As for your cast net example, it supports what I said earlier in this thread about individuals who are intent on violating. Regs make little difference.

 

[geebee]

Mike wrote:


Mark, if you go there again this fall, I recommend concentrating your efforts from Rebers bridge to the Rt 222 bridge, as the stretch from Rebers Bridge up to Blue Marsh Dam was not stocked with adult trout this fall or last. It was stocked privately, however, with fin-clipped RT fingerlings last fall. So keep an eye out for adipose fin clipped fish....at least I think the adipose fin is the one that they clipped. Has anyone seen many of those fish on the end of their line this past spring or summer.

Oh, and by the way, I always do well on a red San Juan worm there. It is an organically enriched stream and with that problem the trout may be used to seeing the bright red Chironomid larvae (midge), which thrive in similar or even worse streams. Generally, they are found in the muck, black leaf mixture along stream perimeters.

Thanks for that information Mike - i did see a few fish move on my first trip up there thats why i tried up there. i went back and fished it with a 3 fly cast of wet caddis flies but no luck.

i guess if i want easier fishing i should try below the bridge - on the way home i saw 5 anglers pooled up at Paper Mill road.

interesting about the midges - red thread midges and zebras usually produce for me on most rivers as much as black ones - more so on Valley Creek.

cheers all

Mark