Tippet + Leader ?

[6cth001]

New angler here (to fly fishing) and have questions regarding tippet. So with a 5x leader I have been told 6/7/8 x tippet will work. Have also heard you can use 4x. My question, if I am using 5 x leader, wouldn’t using 4x tippet take away from the tapered presentation? Becuase I would be going from thinner line to thicker?

Would love to hear any advice regarding tippet and its uses in different conditions from you experienced anglers

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

"Yes" to your first question. A bigger diameter added to a smaller diameter would no longer be tapered. I've seen discussions/arguments about diameters of this or that "_X" tippets varying by manufacturer, so that may have been the basis of "hearing about" using 4x on 5x. Turnover will always be better when the leader diameter is progressively smaller from line to fly.

 

[6cth001]

Thank you. Fished yesterday and used about 6 feet of 5x leader , 3-4 feet 6x tippet, little fish no issues, any of the big guys that took my fly broke my tippet several time (and not where I tied the knot). So this left me wondering if I should switch up to 5x tippet or even 4x but that’s where I questioned my tapered presentation. Lots to learn.

 

[afishinado]

Thank you. Fished yesterday and used about 6 feet of 5x leader , 3-4 feet 6x tippet, little fish no issues, any of the big guys that took my fly broke my tippet several time (and not where I tied the knot). So this left me wondering if I should switch up to 5x tippet or even 4x but that’s where I questioned my tapered presentation. Lots to learn.

4x or 5x tippets should work best for the size flies most fished.

I would stay away from 6X or lighter except when fishing tiny flies (which should be avoided by a beginner anyway).

Using too light of a tippet causes breakoffs like you mentioned, and may cause your tippet to twist.

There's no need to have to deal with really light tippets, especially for a beginner.

Here is a chart which matches recommended tippet size with fly size along with some valuable info about tippets written below.

Tippet Chart | Fly Fishing How To

Good luck.

 

[6cth001]

4x or 5x tippets should work best for the size flies most fished.

I would stay away from 6X or lighter except when fishing tiny flies which should be avoided by a beginner anyway.

Using too light of a tippet causes breakoffs like you mentioned, and may cause your tippet to twist.

There's no need to have to deal with really light tippets, especially for a beginner.

Here is a chart which matches recommended tippet size with fly size:

Tippet Chart | Fly Fishing How To

Good luck.

Appreciate this info. Thank you for this!!!

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Thank you. Fished yesterday and used about 6 feet of 5x leader , 3-4 feet 6x tippet, little fish no issues, any of the big guys that took my fly broke my tippet several time (and not where I tied the knot). So this left me wondering if I should switch up to 5x tippet or even 4x but that’s where I questioned my tapered presentation. Lots to learn.

Breaking off isn't always the fault of tippet size. Since you admit to being new at this, it's possible that your hookset may be too heavy for your rod to absorb the shock. Think "flick the wrist" and not "launch the fish out of the water and over my head" when setting the hook. If you keep breaking off - in places on the tippet without knots - run your tippet from the blood knot (or surgeons knot, etc.) through your fingers to see if there are any wind knots. (Again, you're new at this but wind knots aren't limited to any experience level... You'll just get less of them as you learn how to avoid them.) Tippet almost always breaks at a wind knot when setting a hook on even a smallish fish.
You can also try other terminal knots besides a clinch... there are quite a few that allow avoiding kinks when the knot is tightened.
As Afish mentions, using a too-small tippet for a too-big fly will curlicue your leader in about three false casts, so the maximum size fly I'll use on 6x is 16. Even then, I'm careful to limit false casting to only what is needed, and I check for twists and wind knots constantly.
Generally, use the largest tippet size the fish will allow you to get away with. You'll be fine.
Regards and have fun.

 

[6cth001]

Okay thank you! Great info.

You said on a 6x the highest fly size you’ll go is a 16. Meaning if my hook size is anywhere from 10-16 you would advise against that?

And what exactly is a wind knot? I see you said these can happen from false casts when using too big of a fly on too small tippet. I definitely noticed my tippet had flaws in some spaces, almost thinned out or frayed.

I will be sure to watch my hook sets are appropriate for a trout and not act like I’m landing a 10 lb bass (guilty)

 

[rrt]

6cth001,

As a beginner, I think if I were you, I'd attach a 7 1/2' leader tapered to 3X to my fly line. To the end of the leader I would tie on about fwo feet of 4X tippet. That might be appropriate for most of the early-season dry-fly fishing you do. It really wouldn't be too bad for many nymph fishing situations either, though you might not want 9' or more of leader for nymphing.

As your casting skills improve, you might want to attach a 9' leader tapered to 3X to your line before adding the 4X tippet.

As the season goes on and the waters recede, you might then want to add some 5X tippet to your 4X, after cutting about a foot off the 4X.

Except for special situations with small flies, you really do not need to go down to 6X or smaller tippet very often.

At least, that's my "take" on things.

Have fun.

 

[6cth001]

Good advice. How do I know the size of my float line? My set up was handed down but I also have a bare rod and spool I could have set up up this way. It has nothing not even backing. Both rods are 9’ 5x

 

[6cth001]

Good advice. How do I know the size of my float line? My set up was handed down but I also have a bare rod and spool I could have set up up this way. It has nothing not even backing. Both rods are 9’ 5x

Sorry, misread. I see you said 3 x leader to my float line. I’m going to try this set up as it makes sense and aligns with a lot of advice. As I improve my casts I can work on getting the leader to 4 or 5x as I’m assuming this will present smoother for most situations I’ll find myself in

 

[Bamboozle]

6cth001:

All I can add is; forget you ever heard of any tippet size lighter than 4X and forget whatever you heard about needing the light stuff for delicacy, etc...

Presentation is everything, fly turnover is a close 2nd and if I had a dollar for everybody I know who never fishes light tippets, I could buy a year's supply of 3X.

ANY store bought leader you buy will work and IMHO a 7' - 7-1/2" 3X leader would be ideal because you can easily add a lighter tippet to that. Work with that for awhile and you will quickly realize the fish are less concerned with tippet size than fishermen.

When you come across a fly where the 3X tippet won't fit through the eye of the hook, then start worrying about 4X - 7X.

Good luck & have fun!!

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

You said on a 6x the highest fly size you’ll go is a 16. Meaning if my hook size is anywhere from 10-16 you would advise against that?

Kind of... 14 and bigger will generally go onto 5x or 4x. If you're using a size 10, you're probably in a drake hatch and 3x and 4x tippet may go unnoticed by the fish when they're really turned on.
I don't want to complicate things for you but the fluffiness of a fly will twist a small tippet as well. Bigger flies generally use more material and longer wings/hackles... therefore, fluffier. If you throw a bare #2 hook on a 7x tippet, it will be very aerodynamic, but you won't ever float it.

And what exactly is a wind knot?

You'll know it when you see it (or when you see two, or three, or...). It's basically an overhand knot in your tippet that leaves you wondering how it got there.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

6cth001:

All I can add is forget you ever heard of any tippet size lighter than 4X and forget whatever you heard about needing the light stuff for delicacy, etc...

Presentation is everything, fly turnover is a close 2nd and if I had a dollar for everybody I know who never fishes light tippets, I could buy a year's supply of 3X.

ANY store bought leader you buy will work and IMHO a 7' - 7-1/2" 3X leader would be ideal because you can easily add a lighter tippet to that. Work with that for awhile and you will quickly realize the fish are less concerned with tippet size than fishermen.

When come across a fly where the 3X tippet won't fit through the eye of the hook, then start worrying about 4X - 7X.

Good luck & have fun!!

^^^^^^^^
Yes, all of this. Especially having fun.

 

[Bamboozle]

...And what exactly is a wind knot?...

Another good thing about not concerning yourself with light tippets...

Wind knots are less of a concern in 3X or 4X than with 6X or 7X...

...unless you hook a barracuda.

 

[td566]

I have enjoyed this post and have learned a lot, thanks everyone. I think I remember learning some of this many years ago, but when you only get to flyfish a few times a year it goes away. I usually end up frustrated watching my tippet pile up with a fly that was likely too big for the tippet. I may have even been attaching too long a tippet piece to my leader (around 3 feet long).
Im hoping this “new” information will stick with me better now that I have more time to fish. 😀
The best advice of all is to have fun.

 

[poopdeck]

Thank you. Fished yesterday and used about 6 feet of 5x leader , 3-4 feet 6x tippet, little fish no issues, any of the big guys that took my fly broke my tippet several time (and not where I tied the knot). So this left me wondering if I should switch up to 5x tippet or even 4x but that’s where I questioned my tapered presentation. Lots to learn.

Reading this is confusing to me. Are you using a 6’ 5X tapered leader, which is not common size leader, or is the leader longer, say a 9’ leader that you’re cutting down to a 6’ length? Possibly you are using 6’ of straight 5X tippet material, calling it the leader and then adding 3 to 4 more feet of 6X tippet.

I get the feeling you’re not actually describing a tapered or knotted leader, just a length of 5X tippet material with another length of 6X tippet material tied on the end. Perhaps I’m confused, perhaps it’s in the translation but something is amiss in your description.

 

[troutbert]

Buy a leader that is 7 1/2 feet long, tapered to 3x.

Tie a tippet ring on the end. Leave that on as your permanent base leader.

Just make adjustments by tying tippet to the ring.

For streamers, tie on a piece of 3x tippet to the ring.

For big nymphs and big dry flies (like size 10) tie a piece of 4x tippet to the ring.

For most typical dries and nymphs (sizes 12, 14, 16), tie on a short piece of 4x tippet to the ring, then tie a long piece of 5x tippet to the 4x tippet.

If you don't know how to tie monofilament to monofilament yet, you could just tie 5x directly to the ring.

But you'll have to learn how to tie mono to mono. It's tricky to learn, but it's a must.

Don't use 6x or lighter tippet at all.

When you are starting out, you want to keep things very simple.

 

[td566]

Troutbert, thanks for your post.
For your description on most typical dries and nymphs, what is a short piece and long piece when referring to the 4x and 5x lengths?
This is always my question when I start tying on extra pieces of tippet to the leader, how long to make my tippet pieces.
Thanks. TD

 

[td566]

6cth,
Thanks for starting this thread. I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds by jumping in.

 

[PennKev]

Buy a leader that is 7 1/2 feet long, tapered to 3x.

Tie a tippet ring on the end. Leave that on as your permanent base leader.

Just make adjustments by tying tippet to the ring.

For streamers, tie on a piece of 3x tippet to the ring.

For big nymphs and big dry flies (like size 10) tie a piece of 4x tippet to the ring.

For most typical dries and nymphs (sizes 12, 14, 16), tie on a short piece of 4x tippet to the ring, then tie a long piece of 5x tippet to the 4x tippet.

If you don't know how to tie monofilament to monofilament yet, you could just tie 5x directly to the ring.

But you'll have to learn how to tie mono to mono. It's tricky to learn, but it's a must.

Don't use 6x or lighter tippet at all.

When you are starting out, you want to keep things very simple.

This is sound advice.

The only thing I would change is starting with a 2x leader since that gives you a better base for streamer fishing.