Tionesta Tailwater

dasofas

dasofas

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May 11, 2009
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Has anyone fished the tailwater of the reservoir this year? I heard last year that they began releasing from a lower gate on the dam and the small stretch from the dam to the Allegheny was improving greatly as a cold water fishery. Checking to see if anyone has caught holdovers this year as an indication that this has worked, or maybe they didn't keep with it all season, not sure.
 
I've not, but I probably will in a week or so, especially if we get a storm while we're up there that makes everything else unfishable.

My dad and brother both fished it this year. They caught a few trout, more than normal, they say, but did not indicate that any were holdovers or anything. But they were after musky, and successful at that endeavor. My brother also pulled out a really big channel cat on his little bass rod (loaded with 4 lb test).
 
Thanks Pcray, let me know if you hit it. That whole area could be such an asset for the fly fishing community if both the Tio Res. and Kinzua were released from the bottom gates. I guess it would not bode as well on the warm water anglers.

Has anyone seen a study on the economic impact of establishing a quality cold water fishery (i.e. anticipated revenue per mile) vs. a WWF? Farmer Dave, your from up that way, any thoughts on how that would be received, or how it may impact the local econ? My perception is people seem to travel further and spend more money to be over trout than they do bass.
 
I have mixed feelings about that.

That was/is a pretty darn good warm water fishery.
 
Are the mixed feelings because of the potential impact to the WWF, or do you have mixed feelings about the perceived economic value creating a CWF could yield?

Sorry if this is redundant, I see a very similar thread going on the conservation page. I like fishing for smallmouth as much as the next person, but here is a situation where the bottom release already exists. It would not cost anything to create the situation I describe, just modify release policy. I would think this puts that section of the Allegheny in a unique situation. I am by no means on a self fullfilling crusade to convert all waters to trout heaven, but in this particular case the infrastructure is already there.
 
Reality check accepted.

No need to apologize, it was a valid question, and a good one at that. It forces me to think a little bit instead of respond on pure sentiment. tim Murphy got me all sentimental... ;-)

However, I am no longer conflicted. The good greatly outweighs any perceived bad part on my part (IMHO of course).

My original concern was based on what i used to catch at the spillway. The change should not only improve all the fishing in that short stretch of the Tionesta, it should also improve the Allegheny for a fair distance.

You mentioned the economic benefit. that is a great point that I hadn't thought of either before responding. The area can sure use that.

I didn't see the conversation over there. Maybe I'll check it out.
 
I don't think making the Tionesta more of a bottom release would severely impact the smallmouth, walleye, musky fishery. Look at Kinzua, its got it all! It could improve the trout fishery. It'd basically make it into a year-round cool water fishery, rather than the cold/warm mix it has now. That area has plenty of fishing so its not real high on my priority list, but yeah, if no work needs to be done on the dam and its just changing the release cycle, I'm all for it.

What would be really nice is to freakin take out Chapman. Tionesta Creek, temperature wise, would be more on par with something like Oil Creek. The recreational benefit to the West Branch and the main stem, in the many miles downstream, would far outweigh what that little lake up there gives.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
I don't think making the Tionesta more of a bottom release would severely impact the smallmouth, walleye, musky fishery. Look at Kinzua, its got it all! It could improve the trout fishery. It'd basically make it into a year-round cool water fishery, rather than the cold/warm mix it has now. That area has plenty of fishing so its not real high on my priority list, but yeah, if no work needs to be done on the dam and its just changing the release cycle, I'm all for it.

that is what i was thinking after I actually started thinking again.:roll:

What would be really nice is to freakin take out Chapman. Tionesta Creek, temperature wise, would be more on par with something like Oil Creek. The recreational benefit to the West Branch and the main stem, in the many miles downstream, would far outweigh what that little lake up there gives.

First let me say that i agree 100 percent that that dam should go. But do you really think it would make all that much of a difference? I mean, it would upair, but the creek's fertility really sucks way upair anway. But down stream a few miles, would it really make that much difference?

That lake is so acidic that it isn't even a very good panfish fishery. the lake may actually help some with the fertility.
 
Look at Kinzua, its got it all!

I agree, the tailrace at Kinzua is pretty good, but it is limited to only a relatively short section below the dam. Someone can correct me here if I am off, but I believe they NEVER release from the bottom gate at Kinzua. Miles of water, certianly to Tidiuote, and maybe even to Tionesta can have a dramatic increase in trout populations with the cooler flow should Kinzua release from the bottom. I think it would be fair to say it could be on par with the Yough.
 
Ok, first, it is on par with the Yough, perhaps harder to fish, but they're there. That river is loaded with big fish where the habitat is right. It's fingerling stocked, its plenty cool enough for fish to live year round. While the famous trout water is basically from the dam to Warren (still a number of miles), fish do survive year round down to Tidioute, and even to Tionesta and below. In the lower areas, they do concentrate near cold water influences. Yes, they release from the bottom gate. Probably the easiest way to catch the big river trout is to fish the marginal area (Tidioute, Tionesta, etc.) and fish up the lower reaches of cold water tributaries in high summer.

Farmer, I've spent some time exploring the headwaters of the west branch, well above Chapman and closer to Dunham Siding. I'm a little confused, though. You're right in that its highly acidic and the main stem isn't very good at all. But nearly all of its tribs are good. I found one small tributary that was completely dead, I think all that acid comes from that one alone? That seems strange, like point pollution rather than the typical acid rain thats common upair. I need to take a walk along that trib and see if I can find it.

As for the main stem, yes, it wouldn't be as fertile as Oil, hence the caveat "temperature wise". The South Branch doesn't help either. Fish seem to hold just fine in Tionesta, though, until the water temps force them out, which usually happens, well, right about now, and its a very productive smallmouth fishery, so things can't be that bad in the main stem. I think without Chapman you'd get another solid month of good trout fishing over many miles. It's a similar size as nearby Oil, with arguably colder tribs, and better forest cover. From a temperature, not fertility, standpoint, it could be just as good if it weren't for Chapman. I'm not claiming it'd be a wild trout stream or anything like that though (though it was at one point in the past, before Chapman and before acid rain).
 
Good stuff Pcray, I didn't relatize they were using the bottom gate at Kinzua.
 
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