The Fluorocarbon Myth

[MD_Gene]

http://activeanglingnz.com/2016/01/04/the-fluorocarbon-myth/

 

[moon1284]

Flourorcarbon isn't a type of monofilament. It was hard for me to read past the first sentence because I don't think the author realizes that.

With that said I use maxima ultragreen mono for tippet exclusively because I've used it for years and I have confidence in it. I've tried flouro but didn't notice a difference either way.

Also, I can get maxima in large spools down to 2lb test (which is probably much stronger and thicker than advertised), but works for me.

 

[PennKev]

moon1284 wrote:
Flourorcarbon isn't a type of monofilament. It was hard for me to read past the first sentence because I don't think the author realizes that.
.

The term "monofilament" does not describe the chemical makeup of the material, it is a description of the physical structure of the line. Monofilament means a single strand, as opposed to a braided or twisted multi filament line. Single filament nylon and single filament fluoro are both monofilament lines in the literal sense. This may be confusing to anglers since mono and monofilament are terms commonly associated with nylon, but calling fluorocarbon lines "fluorocarbon monofilament" is not incorrect.

 

[PennKev]

I think everyone needs to make up their own mind. Fluoro is not a miracle material, but it is different than nylon.

I agree that the visibility properties of fluoro are overstated, however I'm convinced that in general, fluoro is vastly more abrasion resistant than most if not all nylon. For me, this alone is enough to warrant it's use for nymph and streamer fishing.

I think the abrasion resistance also helps to keep visibility low as a frayed, chewed up line is easier to see. In fact, I believe this gives it a bigger edge in visibility over nylon rather than it's transparency or refractive (or whatever) properties.

 

[moon1284]

I stand corrected.

 

[MD_Gene]

As almost always on this board, a good intelligent discussion. Good points guys.

 

[pcray1231]

Pennkev, to make matters worse, most nylon tippets are NOT monofilament. They are copolymers (two or more strands braided and then bonded, it's more supple but less abrasion resistant). Maxima Chameleon being a very rare exception, as it was designed mostly for leaders, not tippet, and as such values abrasion resistance, and a true nylon mono is very abrasion resistant but stiff.

For what it's worth, I like nylon copolymer for tippet better than fluoro because of the superior suppleness. I think micro drag matters more than visibility. Flouro is more abrasion resistant than a nylon copolymer, but less than a nylon mono, and the stiffness likewise falls in between, so it does make sense as a compromise between the two.

 

[ryansheehan]

I use flouro when nymphing or for a dropper because I have always heard the sink rate was quicker. I saw the graph about the line sinking quicker through the water column was only marginally faster. However that was just a strand of line (i beleive)wonder if that would change with a weighted nymph attached. I would be curious to take two of the same flies, one with flouro one with nylon and see how much quicker the flouro fly got down, if it all. I might need to rethink this flouro thing, wont need two sets of tippet anymore.

 

[sarce]

Pcray,

That nylon copolymer stuff sounds interesting. Can you recommend a brand? Is it available in heavier strengths that could be used for large streamers? I have noticed that thicker tippets sometimes cause streamers to act "stiff", so if you're saying this material is more flexible, maybe that could help. I've always taken a pretty bare bones approach to fly fishing so I know nothing about this. Always just used mono tippet.

 

[afishinado]

I agree with PennKev above.

Discounting the visibility claims as well as the density claims (sinks faster) I always use fluoro to nymph because of its superior abrasion resistance.

Last year I was "forced" to compare mono to fluoro (I ran out of fluoro tippet) when nymphing in the Delaware River. I flossed the rocks with mono and spent the entire day tying and retying tippet because the mono became abraded in short order.

Generally I use mono tippets for dry fly fishing and flouro for nymphing.

 

[pcray1231]

sarce, almost every major brand of nylon tippet material is a copolymer, not a monofilament.

Rio powerflex and suppleflex
Dai Riki
Frog Hair
SA tippets
Umpqua
Orvis Super Strong

Maxima is literally one of the only exceptions in the fly fishing game. True monofilament is a rare bird. Yes, anglers often use "mono" as a stand-in term for nearly any nylon based material, as I believe you are doing. But it's simply wrong.

That said, for spin fishing lines, there are quite a few in both categories:

Monofilaments: Stren, Trilene, etc.
Copolymers: Silver Thread, P-Line, Berkely "sensation", Stren "Easy Cast", Sufix, etc.

Copolymers will be more supple, have less memory, stretch less, and have better "new" strength to diameter ratios. Mono's will have better abrasion resistance, which, combined with the stretch factor, leads many to believe they are ultimately stronger in the real world.

While a copolymer can technically be 2 strands of straight nylon, many of the modern ones incorporate 2 slightly different materials as well, trying to give a better combination of properties, which means among copolymers there can be quite a range in properties between brands. Also, most copolymers are coated, often with PTFE (Teflon, which is, ironically, technically a fluorocarbon!), to give it a little bit of abrasion resistance back, at least till it wears off.

 

[pcray1231]

Throwing fluoro in the mix:

Best to worst, in terms of suppleness:

copolymer, fluoro, monofilament

Best to worst, in terms of abrasion resistance:

monofilament, fluoro, copolymer

So if you want to go all out on one of those attributes, adjust accordingly. Note that in all cases, there are differences between brands, with some overlap of the categories (i.e. stiffest copolymers may be less supple than the most supple fluoros).

A simple test for suppleness can be done with a fly tying vise. Cut equivalent lengths of each material. Secure in vise jaws at the same place. Observe the hanging end, move it around a bit, etc. Differences become fairly apparent. Of copolymers, the most supple I've found is, not surprisingly based on the marketing target, Rio Suppleflex. Powerflex itself is on the more supple end of the spectrum. I've found Orvis to be on the stiffer end of it (which makes sense, as it's marketed for strength, and strength and suppleness are often contradictory).

IMO, all 3 have their time and place. Afish's copolymer for dries and fluoro for nymphs has some merit. Though if he really wants abrasion resistance for his nymphing, he could try a TRUE mono like Maxima.

 

[pete41]

if you are talking about spin fishing-braided with flouro leader-

 

[allan_s]

Trouthunter Nylon and Frog Hair are my two favorites. I used flouro almost exclusively for a few years and I really feel like its 'abilities' are overstated.

What I use depends on the conditions though.

 

[Midge22]

check this out. they test many many brands against each other. Im a huge Trouthunter fluoro fan. use it for everything. their 6.5x fluro is stronger than any 6x fluoro ive ever used.

http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/gear-review/tippet-shootout-seaguar-grandmax-trouthunter-orvis-mirage-riopowerflex-pline-dairiki-varivas-sa-climax-maxima-froghair-stoft-umpqua

 

[pcray1231]

Thanks for the link. That's as good of an attempt at objective testing as I've seen.

Again, as with anything like that, they take a bunch of attributes and their final ranking is basically an average of all of them combined.

But as for what's best for you, dig deeper. Some of those attributes I could care less about. Others I consider of primary importance. And hence, weighted to MY priorities, my final ranking may be VERY different. Heck, it could be very different for very different purposes. I could favor one for fishing for 6" brookies in tight streams, another for chasing steelhead in PA's tribs, yet another for dry fly fishing over picky spring creek fish, and another for tossing meat on big water. But they provide the data, as objectively as they can, and we can peruse it and choose for ourselves.

Generally, again, my biggest priority is suppleness. Which explains why, in nylon materials, I've been partial to Rio suppleflex (not tested, but very supple), as well as liking SA's and Dai Riki materials. In fluoro, Seaguar Grandmax FX is the best I've found.

Meanwhile, my LEAST favorites among nylon include Stroft, Frog Hair, and Climax, all rated as stiff.

I need to give Trout Hunter nylon a try, based on the testing it looks like I'd like it. Super supple and stretchy with a good spool design...

 

[Midge22]

Just watch its strength, i have heard stories of it being super weak for the rating. i believe its the weakest nylon out there, but not sure where i read the test on that. ill see if i can find it again

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Not all flouro carbon or nylon is the same. To put them all in one category is a mistake,imo. Knot strength is the variable and poorly tied knots are the weakest link. Gg

 

[pcray1231]

Just watch its strength, i have heard stories of it being super weak for the rating.

Which means I'd probably go heavier, losing the extra suppleness I gained. That's the world of trade-offs, I suppose. And it's how 2 guys can have vastly different takes on how "light" you need to go and can get away with.

The guy using a super strong and stiff 7x says it's strong enough to land fish quickly and he has to use it to buy a hit. The guy using soft and supple 5x says they hit it just fine, but going finer is ill advised for fish health. They're both right. Because one guys 7x is acting just like the other's 5x.

 

[Chaz]

Nylon, copolymer and fluorocarbon are 3 different animals. FWIW apples oranges and pears. While they look similar they have different processes of manufacture and different properties.
I use fluorocarbon for my leaders and tippets. Never had a problem.
I will say this, when any of the are exposed to high heat, such as in a vehicle, they loose some of those more desirable properties, one of which is the supple quality. This tends to make them break under less then maximum stress.
Not many fishing lines are currently made of nylon monofilament, or what it is known as. They are either copolymers or fluorocarbon.