Stream restoration

lowkey

lowkey

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
123
I'm starting a group who will raise money and labor to fence off streams on farms both for a stream buffer and for permaculture between stream and fence to feed farmers and their livestock.

Have to run for now. More details to follow if any are interested.
 
Have you contacted your local conservation district?
Here in Lancaster, the conservation district along with the Chesapeake Bay Foundation work closely with land owners, farmers and other government agencies to create best management plans (BMP's) for farms and help to draw up plans for land owners and apply for grants to help alleviate or cover the costs of stream bank fencing and riparian buffer zones and stream improvements.
 
yeah, it's a good idea, but also sounds like you're looking to reinvent the wheel...
 
great idea, but it may be easier to go through groups and organizations that are already started. you could organize your efforts through your local TU chapter, sportsmans club, watershed group etc and get into contact with the conservation district in your area. If you go through your TU chapter, contact the PA council of TU and they will be able to point you in the right direction to apply for grants.
 
I agree that there are many organization already working on this, and that you would be better off working with an existing organization than starting a new one.

Regarding the permaculture in riparian buffer idea, do you have any details of what is proposed? And have these ideas actually been demonstrated, implemented in this region?

I think it is an interesting idea, but I also see some possible conflicts between the goals of:

1) Riparian vegetation managed for stream restoration and conservation.

and

2) Riparian vegetation managed for agricultural production done on a scale, and using methods, that make it actually profitable for the farmer.

If you look at riparian and floodplain forests in a natural (or near natural) state, then look at commercial fruit and nut orchards, you can see that they are extremely different.

 
Thanks for all your input,

I'd rather take zero government money. Strings are always attached. If you investigate permaculture you will see how this not only can work, it is the best idea to come along in a long time.....don't mind my ego.

This is not so much reinventing the wheel as it is ditching the wheel altogether. Time to go back to simpler and more efficient ways. We've been sold a pack of lies about "economies of scale".....blase, blase.
 
where are you lowkey ?

i appreciate your attitude. 20 years ago TU was "one stream at a time" which is very noble, but it didn't do enough although their aims are 100% dead on.

Now, the Chesapeake bay folks say that attitude is too limited - we should save as many as we can simultaneously. The mantle of which seems to have been picked up by American Rivers who last year sponsored and organised 51 dam removals - 12 of them in PA.

so personally, I don't think you can have enough groups, or enough boots on the ground, and if you know what needs to be done, why wait for the surveys, approvals and permits, just go do it if you've got the landowners approval.

'Git er done' is my motto.

 
geebee wrote:
why wait for the surveys, approvals and permits, just go do it if you've got the landowners approval.
Click to expand...

Because these surveys and permits are often needed in order to be in compliance with state polices and laws.

If you want to charge ahead and do your own thing because "one stream at a time" is inadequate, be my guest. However you might find those landowners are inclined to want to be in compliance.

For what it's worth, I'd humbly recommend you familiarize yourself with required permits; take advantage of whatever funding is available - including government funding...and focus on one stream at a time.

Again, as others have posted above: don't re-invent the wheel. There are good, local organizations that know this process and have been walking the walk for years.
 
Fishidiot wrote:


Again, as others have posted above: don't re-invent the wheel. There are good, local organizations that know this process and have been walking the walk for years.
Click to expand...

And in many of these cases it has been paying big dividends.
 
For fencing and buffer planting, no permit is required.

For dam removal, building stream habitat structures, and channel alterations, a permit is required by law.



 
troutbert wrote:

For dam removal, building stream habitat structures, and channel alterations, a permit is required by law.
Click to expand...

When I called in February, they told me that along as streamflow is below 5 CFS and you are not closing channels, interrupting streamflow or creating new channels, you are good to go.

I was assuming this, as Sarce's project was a small crick or run, when I made my comments.
 
I think you will find that money isn't the problem. Landowner cooperation is, especially farmers.
Obtaining such permission may be even more difficult once word about the new legislation to have the commonwealth prevent landowners from closing their property to fishing if PFBC stocked fish will migrate there. This legislation is directed at the Erie tribs, but it will certainly sensitize landowners elsewhere to potential intrusions on their private property rights by fishing interests.
 
Low key:
If you desire to find out how to get the most bang for your buck, talk to the Mill Creek Watershed Association in Lancaster Co. I read their annual newsletter and have to say that I know of no volunteer group that routinely covers the stream distances in a year that these individuals do with their habitat and riparian restoration work. And yes, I believe that I read that they work closely with the conservation district. They probably found that it is pragmatic to do so.
 
All of your thoughts are helpful, and all of them I will keep in mind as I move forward. I think I'd like to start doing some volunteer work. This could provide some foundation as well as help to network me to other folks who are already educated and experienced.

I've done a lot of studying of these topics and lots of dreaming over the years. I have done some work on my dad's farm to help with his little stream. Indeed there are now wild brook trout in his stream.....what a delightful feeling.

Anyway, thanks again for all you're input. Thanks for saying 'go for it' geebee. That's a big boost!

 
Knowing that all of you have given me excellent input, I think I should organize a 'jam' around these ideas.

Just how or where I'm not sure, but meeting you all could really help propel me (sounds a little selfish, I suppose) in the best direction.

Any thoughts?
 
There are plenty of TU groups, watershed groups, etc. around. If you are interested in working on this stuff, just join, and jump in. They are often looking for people to work on riparian buffer stuff.
 
Lowkey wrote: I'd rather take zero government money. (END)

Why not......They take your money!





 
Lowkey: Your impulse is solid and positive. But be warned, stream restoration, or habitat enhancement, can be a very tricky business with a high failure rate. It may be wise to first educate your self in the process and practicalities of the matter. You are in York, so you are in luck. Very close by is the Muddy Creek Chapter of TU, a group of folks who are very active in stream restoration projects. Join their group, pick their brains, visit their projects, move some rocks, meet with the regulators and learn as much as you can about the process of improving a stream. Also, take a college course in limnology or freshwater ecology to improve your knowledge of stream habitats and physical and chemical processes. And by all means, start your group in the meantime and move forward. Best wishes.
 
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