Stocking over Class A streams

[afishinado]

Well written article/blog about stocking over wild trout >

https://troutbitten.com/2020/04/12/the-mismanagement-of-class-a-wild-trout/?fbclid=IwAR0CBywDV8vTJWeFcmtHbiPP2sWnc-IaxNHbESF8hisbpMU1GmOKl5Ch1U0

 

[silverfox]

Here we are again. The time of year I've come to dread the most. The days of being the only one on the stream are gone for a while. The banks are littered with power bait containers and trampled to bare mud. Bobbers in the trees, hundreds of feet of 12lb mono strung through the inaccessible branches of the far bank, cars at every pull-off, lawn chairs, coolers, and stringers of 10" finless rainbows.

The manufactured hysteria of stocked trout season is in full swing.

So when does the group of people so interested in wild trout get together to actually try to effect change? How many more forum posts will there be about how the commission stocks over wild fish? I saw that the bow hunters of Pennsylvania got together and got an extra week of archery season this year. Why can't the wild trout enthusiasts band together for the cause?

Clearly, at this point, Trout Unlimited isn't the vehicle for such change. What is then?

 

[Zak]

I live near and fish regularly a few Class A streams that are stocked and it's fine. Would the wild trout population be better if the stream wasn't stocked? Probably. Is the fishing still excellent for wild fish anyhow? yes. So in the end, who really cares. As long as the fishing experience is still very good I could care less if the electrofishing surveys show more or less wild trout. My fishing rod shows plenty. It's not the big deal we try to make of it.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

It is a good article but to me this is old news common sense. (Not bashing the article at all, its great!)
IMO PA should be doing what is stated in the article as a bare minimum, however we should be seriously considering slot limits and closed seasons on select waters.
I can think of a handful that would be amazing candidates for a 10 year study on potamodromous brown trout and the increased abundance of potamodromous brown trout with these select regulations.

PA could have a truely amazing brown fishery beyond what it already has.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Silverfox,

You ask a very valid question. I dont know the answer but i wish i did.

However before we get carried away. Beyond the PFBC and the PGC (buying forests) do you really believe PA Trout Unlimited hasnt been a vechile for positive change in wild trout?
I think i could make a million arguements how wild trout enthusiasts have gathered and done exactly what you mentioned. Not trying to argue, just how i see that.

I at times have my issues with them but what a great organization.

That said, are they a vehicle to stop the practice of stocking over wild trout? Not yet unfortunately.

 

[afishinado]

silverfox wrote:
Here we are again. The time of year I've come to dread the most. The days of being the only one on the stream are gone for a while. The banks are littered with power bait containers and trampled to bare mud. Bobbers in the trees, hundreds of feet of 12lb mono strung through the inaccessible branches of the far bank, cars at every pull-off, lawn chairs, coolers, and stringers of 10" finless rainbows.

The manufactured hysteria of stocked trout season is in full swing.

So when does the group of people so interested in wild trout get together to actually try to effect change? How many more forum posts will there be about how the commission stocks over wild fish? I saw that the bow hunters of Pennsylvania got together and got an extra week of archery season this year. Why can't the wild trout enthusiasts band together for the cause?

Clearly, at this point, Trout Unlimited isn't the vehicle for such change. What is then?

What are you proposing to affect a change in policy?

 

[silverfox]

afishinado wrote:

What are you proposing to affect a change in policy?

The fish and boat commission stops stocking ALL Class A streams AND stream sections for a start. The fact that it still occurs is seriously disappointing.

I personally would like to see that increased to cessation of stocking in Class B streams AND stream sections.

You would think something so simple and logical would be easy to get changed. Apparently not.

 

[afishinado]

silverfox wrote:

afishinado wrote:

What are you proposing to affect a change in policy?

The fish and boat commission stops stocking ALL Class A streams AND stream sections for a start. The fact that it still occurs is seriously disappointing.

I personally would like to see that increased to cessation of stocking in Class B streams AND stream sections.

You would think something so simple and logical would be easy to get changed. Apparently not.

^ those are the changes. My question is what is your proposal to affect change after making these statements >

"So when does the group of people so interested in wild trout get together to actually try to effect change? How many more forum posts will there be about how the commission stocks over wild fish? I saw that the bow hunters of Pennsylvania got together and got an extra week of archery season this year. Why can't the wild trout enthusiasts band together for the cause?

Clearly, at this point, Trout Unlimited isn't the vehicle for such change. What is then?"

 

[silverfox]

afishinado wrote:

^ those are the changes. My question is what is your proposal to affect change after making these statements >

"So when does the group of people so interested in wild trout get together to actually try to effect change? How many more forum posts will there be about how the commission stocks over wild fish? I saw that the bow hunters of Pennsylvania got together and got an extra week of archery season this year. Why can't the wild trout enthusiasts band together for the cause?

Clearly, at this point, Trout Unlimited isn't the vehicle for such change. What is then?"

That's my question! :-D

I don't know. The bow hunters formed a group called "United Bow Hunters of Pennsylvania" and carried out phone/mail/email campaigns to the Game Commission. I don't know what other "lobbying" efforts they carried out. I would assume the formation of such an organization would be required to apply pressure to the Fish and Boat Commission.

I don't know that the Fish & Boat Commission is as malleable as the Game Commission though. It might be comparing apples to oranges in terms of success of such an approach.

The thing I find most odd is that there isn't a "united worm slingers of PA" group applying pressure in the opposite way. It's like the Fish and Boat decided it's in their own best interests to stock wild trout waters and it's up to us to convince them otherwise? Seems silly, but I guess that's where we're at?

 

[afishinado]

silverfox wrote:

afishinado wrote:

^ those are the changes. My question is what is your proposal to affect change after making these statements >

"So when does the group of people so interested in wild trout get together to actually try to effect change? How many more forum posts will there be about how the commission stocks over wild fish? I saw that the bow hunters of Pennsylvania got together and got an extra week of archery season this year. Why can't the wild trout enthusiasts band together for the cause?

Clearly, at this point, Trout Unlimited isn't the vehicle for such change. What is then?"

That's my question! :-D

I don't know. The bow hunters formed a group called "United Bow Hunters of Pennsylvania" and carried out phone/mail/email campaigns to the Game Commission. I don't know what other "lobbying" efforts they carried out. I would assume the formation of such an organization would be required to apply pressure to the Fish and Boat Commission.

I don't know that the Fish & Boat Commission is as malleable as the Game Commission though. It might be comparing apples to oranges in terms of success of such an approach.

The thing I find most odd is that there isn't a "united worm slingers of PA" group applying pressure in the opposite way. It's like the Fish and Boat decided it's in their own best interests to stock wild trout waters and it's up to us to convince them otherwise? Seems silly, but I guess that's where we're at?

I have no solution either.

I believe TU is trying to affect change, but there are many anglers including FFers that see nothing wrong with stocking over healthy populations of wild trout. Unless and until that sentiment changes by many anglers, I suppose the FBC will continue to stock Class A's and B's.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

My understanding is PAFBC does not stock over Class A wild trout streams unless there are local interests who want stocking. They makes decisions to stock over Class A trout streams on a case by case basis. When they get pressure from local interests such as sportsman groups who want stocking, and there is not a sufficient counterpoint, they decide to stock over wild trout.

PAFBC will maintain the status quo unless pressured to do otherwise. They are trying to appease a diverse angling and boating public who often have conflicting self interests.

That's my understanding. I could be wrong. We have more knowledgeable folks, like Mike, who could address this if they want.

 

[tomgamber]

Fly-Swatter wrote:
My understanding is PAFBC does not stock over Class A wild trout streams unless there are local interests who want stocking.

My understanding is that they will stock other sections of the same stream where some sections are considered class A and some are not.

I follow a group on Facebook for people who enjoy, live, have camps, whatever in the Sinnemahoning area. Recently, I read a discussion between members of that group where they were complaining because some their favorite streams are not longer stocked because they have been Considered Class A now. These were locals. One of the streams borders his property and because of this he said he may just post it.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Tom,

I saw your comment yesterday in the other thread about that page.
The photos are amazing like you said.
I fish that area some and was curious to which streams might get posted. I found a conversation about class a's not being stocked but those guys seemed okay with that.
You happen to remember which stream? I cant find it anywhere on there. Maybe they removed it.

 

[silverfox]

Fly-Swatter wrote:
My understanding is PAFBC does not stock over Class A wild trout streams unless there are local interests who want stocking. They makes decisions to stock over Class A trout streams on a case by case basis. When they get pressure from local interests such as sportsman groups who want stocking, and there is not a sufficient counterpoint, they decide to stock over wild trout.

PAFBC will maintain the status quo unless pressured to do otherwise. They are trying to appease a diverse angling and boating public who often have conflicting self interests.

That's my understanding. I could be wrong. We have more knowledgeable folks, like Mike, who could address this if they want.

You're probably right, and that's just astounding to me. I'd personally like them to introduce alligators and snakeheads in my local crick, because, I think it would be neat. SO I'll just get a few locals together and tell the fish and boat commission that I'd like them to put some gators and other invasives around here, because that's what we want. To hell with conservation and all that.

 

[Sylvaneous]

This is the product of a market and a democracy, unfortunately. If the population was all 8 year olds, don't think they wouldn't vote pizza and chocolate for every lunch. This stocking action is what so many people want. If we wanted a big step taken to allow for the already present wild trout populations to be as good as they can be, it would require a heavy hand. The hew and cry would be atrocious.

Unfortuantely, this is the polis that we live with. Things are much better than they used to be. I didn't notice anyone taking any trout (stockies, of course) from Oil Creek on Saturday. I'll say, due to the influence of pro bass fishing, even hillbillies and rednecks are slowly embracing the idea of C&R. If I can get my 'kill everything' brother to put back trout, just about anyone can be reformed.

More than any rule passed by the Fish Commish, a change in killing attitude (killitude) will help our wild trout beyond the environmental and habitat issues that are why they exist in the streams in the first place.

Syl

 

[tomgamber]

sal,

I'll have to get back in and look but I'm pretty sure it was a trib to first fork.

Brb

 

[tomgamber]

I had to get back on the laptop. Trying to read on the phone is going make me blind. I can't find the post I was remembering but I could swear it was in that exchange I gave you the link because I remember the 2 streams I mentioned were the big complaints but I remember someone asking about another one that was not a class A that they were worried about changing over. IDK

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Sylvaneous wrote:
More than any rule passed by the Fish Commish, a change in killing attitude (killitude) will help our wild trout beyond the environmental and habitat issues that are why they exist in the streams in the first place.

I agree. Win hearts and minds!

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Ok no worries Tom.
Im just hoping its not one in particular.
Either way ill keep an eye out for signs next time i am up.
I certainly respect their wishes even if i disagree with them.