Squirmy worm legal at LL Heritage?

L

Lining

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this is fly legal to use at the Little Lehigh Heritage section?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PYpeFT0oJM

Thank you
 
no rubber in FFO.

SJW is ok, squirmy wormy not ok. I'd think.
 
As long as natural or synthetic materials are used and attached or wound about to the hook in a normal fashion, a fly is legal in a Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Only stretch.

A Squirmy Wormy meets that criteria and is therefore legal.

What is prohibited are plastic or rubber facsimiles either threaded or molded to a hook, like soft plastic baits or bug lures.
 
Agree with Bam. ^

The key here is that it is a tied fly and the body is secured with thread etc.
 
Whoops, P

Rubber tied to a hook meets the legality requirements.

But you're right in the case of impaling rubber, (or other material), on a hook the same as you do w/ garden hackle...

 
I read the FFO rules online last night "As long as natural or synthetic materials are used and attached or wound about to the hook in a normal fashion, a fly is legal in a Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Only stretch."

But the signs that are stapled to the trees go in depth more and say no molded rubber and I was thinking about the rubber might be considered molded. So the consensus is that if it's wound on the hook and not impaled, it's okay.

 
Lining wrote:
...But the signs that are stapled to the trees go in depth more and say no molded rubber and I was thinking about the rubber might be considered molded...
Trust me, a Squirmy Wormy is PA FFO legal because it is constructed “normally,” no differently than a San Juan worm. The material it is made of is inconsequential. It is “within the spirt of the regulations.”

Anybody who was fly fishing back in the 1980’s was likely to be using “sheet latex” on caddis or stonefly nymphs that is as “rubber” as it gets. Sheet latex is also legal in PA FFO areas because of the way it is wound or attached to the hook.

Take a length of Squirmy Wormy rubber or a thin strip of sheet latex and impale it on a hook like a small garden worm and we are talking about something COMPLETELY different.

The term “molded facsimile” has been in the FFO regulations for decades and was original used to cover "rubber worms" and a series of small life-size “bug lures” that were made of harder plastic with a hook molded into the center. The bug lures were small enough to be used on fly tackle and marketed to non-tying, casual fly anglers & spin fishermen. I remember seeing them in stores years ago, but I honestly don’t know if that specific type of lure is still made.

More recently with the popularity of finesse fishing there are all kinds of very small molded soft plastic insect baits like crickets, finesse worms, hellgrammites, grubs and maggots for spin fishing that have to be threaded or impaled on a bare hook like the real thing. It is most likely illegal to "lash" any of those small soft plastics to a hook as well. There are also hard topwater baits that look like grasshoppers, crickets, bees and horseflies.

Most likely, this is what defines the current expanded interpretation of “molded facsimile.”

Still not convinced, email the PFBC Bureau of Law Enforcement or message them on their Facebook page, send them a link to a Squirmy Wormy image and ask, then save their reply on your phone or print a copy in case you are ever challenged.

Don’t laugh, I’ve done the same thing with other regs that are spelled out by Harrisburg but misinterpreted by WCO’s on the ground.

You can also let us know what they say and if the consensus is wrong...;-)

Good luck!!
 
Any sign that you see that includes molded facsimiles language is an old sign. The language was changed maybe 9 years ago or so but I'll bet there are more old reg signs out there than not. Squirmy worms should be fine. But don't let an Internet board be the judge and jury (probably would not stand up as a defense). Contact the PFBC if you want to try to get a more official answer. Their opinion and interpretation is what ultinately matters.
 
I've encountered so many people spin fishing and keeping fish from the FFO at Little Lehigh that I doubt you have anything to worry about. They barely enforce the big rules let alone the nuanced technical legalities.
 
Agree with all the above, especially the lack of enforcement. I;ve mentioned that in other posts, but some posters didnt like me bringing that up. The fact of the matter is PFBC do not patrol trout streams. They go out opening day and that is it. I fish at least once a week and average over 100 days a year on various PA waters, mostly Delayed Harvest and FFO and never see a PFBC.




Also..........I would be curious to see how leader regulations apply to FFO. Some of the Euro Nymph Fishermen use all mono rigs, and I am not sure legal they would be in FFO. Again, not that it matters as there is no enforcement but if you are dragging nymphs with 30 feet of monofilament are you really fly fishing? Food for thought.
 
PaScoGi wrote:
Also..........I would be curious to see how leader regulations apply to FFO. Some of the Euro Nymph Fishermen use all mono rigs, and I am not sure legal they would be in FFO. Again, not that it matters as there is no enforcement but if you are dragging nymphs with 30 feet of monofilament are you really fly fishing? Food for thought.
Maybe because the PFBC decided a long time ago to not regulate semantics or opinions on what is "really fly fishing on PA FFO Special Regulation sections...

Bottom line, the PFBC decided a LONG time ago that hair splitting made no sense. As a result, Squirmy Wormys, Tenkara and 20 foot+ leaders are all within the spirit of the FFO regulations whether or not the "absolutists" agree...
 
So you say you’re not seeing WCO’s in or along the FFO sections. Did you ever think that it could be by design, that is, the “not seeing” part?
 
Mike brings up a great point "So you say you’re not seeing WCO’s in or along the FFO sections. Did you ever think that it could be by design, that is, the “not seeing” part?" - Our great WCO here in Chester County, Bob Bonney, puts his SEAL experience to use while hunting down poachers. I think he watches me to pick up some ffishing tips - lol.
 
Maybe they are watching this forum to see where they need to go and observe from a distance?

 
""So you say you’re not seeing WCO’s in or along the FFO sections. Did you ever think that it could be by design, that is, the “not seeing” part?""

I'm saying that on numerous occasions, I have seen people spin fishing in the FFO section and taking fish home from the FFO section with no enforcement in sight. If that's by design, it's an interesting approach. And if, from a secret hiding spot in the trees, he can tell the difference between a rubber worm and a San Juan worm (which was the point of this thread), he's got great eyes that are missing the forest for the trees.
 
I often wonder why people expect WCO's to be everywhere and see everything.

Many of those same folks carry $1000 minicomputers called smart phones, yet they never bother to call the local PFBC Law Enforcement Office when the see stuff like this...

Forever I've had all of the Regional Law Enforcement Offices for both the PFBC & PGC programmed in my phone and I rat out violators when I see them...

...and I enjoy doing it! ;-)

And yes, they have shown up when I call.
 
Yo Bambo - good on you too! I also have the numbers of several WCOs on my phone. One tip for when you are trying to make contact with them in areas with poor cell coverage (applies to many of my spots, since they are always in a valley surrounded by trees and hills): if you aren't getting at least a couple of bars showing your signal strength (or lack thereof), so that a phone call won't go out, send the WCO a text. One bar is enough to pump a text out, even if you get coverage for a second or two. If the text doesn't go out immediately, leave your phone on and as you walk around, you will catch a signal long enough for the text to send.
 
I met bob. Amazing conversations. First time I met him He walked halfway down between two bridges in the middle of the wooda to see if I had a lic on a rainy crap day in early March on a delay Harvest. He is the exception In All fairness They are understaffed and the coverage area they have is to large hence why they rely on tips from sportsmen and woman

Btw. I have used a squirmy worm and had a co 3 feet from me in the kiddie pool Watching me land fresh stockers. When I got 1 about 14 in instead of the cookie cutter 11 he Commented nice fish enjoy your day. As he walked off. So yes squirmy is fine
 
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