Squires tying a real junk fly for wild trout….

afishinado

afishinado

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The hook is in the vise, and judging from the materials on the tying desk, a real junk fly is about to be tied by the PFBC and newly elected President of the Commissioners Squires:

Commissioner Glade Squires, of Chester County, asked why the commission was not exploring the idea of expanding the cooperative nursery program. It calls for the commission to provide sportsmen's clubs with fingerling trout, which they raise at their own expense and stock into waters open to public fishing.

That accounts for more than one million adult trout each year, he said.

Wisner said the commission would be open to enrolling more clubs if they come forward. Squires, though, said the commission should be proactive.

"I think it should be encouraged from our end out, rather than waiting for them to come to us," Squires said.


Link to source: http://www.outdoornews.com/2011/10/13/pa-commissioners-hate-smaller-trout-advice/

What's wrong with the above statement / idea by newly elected President Glade Squires to expand the co-op stocking program? Well nothing, if it were properly supervised and controlled, but I don't see that happening, even a little bit.

Up until recent years a year ago, the PFBC controlled nearly all stocking of streams in PA. As funds got tighter and tighter, the PFBC provided more private clubs with fingerling trout and some assistance, and much of the stocking (>1 million fish) was shifted to these private clubs / co-op hatcheries.

Another development; up until recently, Class A's were off the list for stocking, but that policy was put aside and now all trout streams in PA are open for stocking with approval from the Director. That precedent added major slack in the line and caused a real downstream bow, pulling the flies out of their drift. It's time to (a)mend the line and get back into a good drift...at the very least in Class A's.

There are responsible clubs out there right now that do things the right way, but I have also witnessed wild trout waters turned into trout club rodeos. While the intention is to stock for all anglers (since they paid for the fish with their own license dollars) the reality is often the angling public is not privy to exactly when and where these stockings occur.

Squires often talks of sunshine laws and "transparency", at the last meeting he questioned how and why these wild trout surveys of streams are being done, as if there is some nefarious motive for seeking out wild trout streams. Wow! Talk about transparent motives!

Here's some sunshine: if stocking is to be done by private concerns funded with public license dollars, than the stocking dates, times and locations should be publicly accessed on the PFBC site.

Sharing stocked honey holes is the least of my worries, but making it public knowledge would at least give us a heads up as to what's happening on/in our streams.

Most concerning to me is the loss of control as to which streams are stocked. As the trend moves away from FBC stocking to private club stocking and this trend is accelerated by the PFBC budget crisis, as well as the election of Mr. Squires, I fear the result will be more unfettered stocking of wild trout water.

The FBC does not stock the vast majority of wild trout streams right now. And many of the stocked wild trout streams are stocked infrequently and with a limited number of fish. Notice Squires said “..stock into waters open to public fishing.” Instead of holding the PFBC and the fisheries biologists (the guys that know something about wild trout) responsible as to where, when and how streams are stocked, the entire process is fast becoming totally decentralized. When, where and how and most important WHICH streams are stocked will be decided at local fisherman's club meetings by guys called “Big Jake” and “Stash” rather than the people in the know, or people that even care about our wild trout streams.

Further, I really don't see a great difference if Donny Beaver stocked a wild trout stream for his members to fish, or if Big Jake did the same thing for his club. Yes, Big Jake stocked public waters, but the wild trout in there don't know the difference (and most non-club members have no clue about the stocking either).

I have nothing against stocking, but I do have a major problem with stocking over a vibrant population of wild trout. We are blessed to have so many wild trout streams in Pennsylvania. Why can't we just count our blessings and appreciate and care for what we have, or even, at the very least, just leave them alone?

All the above IMO only.
 

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Most of the fishing clubs I belong to, active members are few, people whom want to volunteer are even fewer.

So, Now how is that to work?
 
Already enough trouble with clubs stocking wild waters. This guys a joke.
 
Well said afish. Stocking over any sustainable population of wild trout, be it the Beav or be it your little private club (BrooksAndHooks, I don't know where in SCPA you're at, but I know of a couple of these little private clubs in northern Lanc and Leb. county that are stocking their stupid pellet heads over wild populations), as you said, Afish, there's no difference. Sure the Beave charges more in membership fees than I make in a year, but the fees aren't what makes such practices wrong. Whether it's $50 a year or $50,000 a year to be a member, you're damaging a natural resource to create an artificial fishery.
 
The_Sasquatch wrote:
Well said afish. Stocking over any sustainable population of wild trout, be it the Beav or be it your little private club (BrooksAndHooks, I don't know where in SCPA you're at, but I know of a couple of these little private clubs in northern Lanc and Leb. county that are stocking their stupid pellet heads over wild populations), as you said, Afish, there's no difference. Sure the Beave charges more in membership fees than I make in a year, but the fees aren't what makes such practices wrong. Whether it's $50 a year or $50,000 a year to be a member, you're damaging a natural resource to create an artificial fishery.

As I stated above, there are some really good clubs and co-ops that do some really good things.

From the article above, Squires is looking to "drive" and promote the idea of private stockings. With the decentralization of the stocking program, the PFBC has to give a lot more direction and guidance and there must be accountability as well as transparency with regard to when, where and how streams are stocked. Without this oversight and accountability, the entire trout program will turn into chaos.

 
This is out of ignorance with hopes of learning more.

What are the negative consequences of stocking over wild fish?? Is this something that we are angry about because it could create smaller fish overall from competition? Is it that the true native brook trout strain could be lost??

I am into plant breeding so this is something that interests me.
 
So a real life situation I observed 2 weeks ago, Pr0digal_son.

I was up in Potter, and was fishing a wild trout stream that flows into a lake that is heavily stocked. Now, that region of the state was in a pretty tough drought. I was checking the stream out closer to the mouth of the lake where I knew from years past, there was better holding water, even in dry years. There certainly was holding water! But every single hole and decent sized run was FULL of stocked rainbows. I'm talking dozens and dozens of stockies piled up on each other, all in the 14-18" range. That was all good holding water that could have been used by wild and native trout to ride out the rest of the drought, even set up redds for the spawn that would have been starting in a week or two. Instead they were crowded out by a bunch of pellet heads.
 
Pr0digal_son wrote:
This is out of ignorance with hopes of learning more.

What are the negative consequences of stocking over wild fish?? Is this something that we are angry about because it could create smaller fish overall from competition? Is it that the true native brook trout strain could be lost??

I am into plant breeding so this is something that interests me.

Lots of angles to the discussion, but a few items to think about:

Undue competition; food sources on certain streams are finite. One wild fish might be content to eat what flows their way, but add the competition of a second stocked fish and the amount of available food may drop by 50%. Add a bucket and that wild fish will probably leave. One of the saddest things I ever saw was on Meade Run. It is open to year-round fishing and has wild fish. It is also stocked heavily just after opening day. One lone, skinny wild brookie was holding in the current, with a bucket of stocked brookies holding all around him. What chance did that wild fish have of surviving?

Genetics - hatchery fish are bred to grow quickly, and may have dulled instincts when it comes to feeding and surviving. That's not exactly what you want introduced into a wild gene pool.

Pressure - mark a stream section as stocked, dump six buckets in a hole and watch the white truck fleet pull up. Mark the same section as natural reproduction, perhaps with more wily wild fish, and not so many people care to fish it for the "dinks" (yes, even if that natural reproduction list or wilderness list is published..).

Waste - in the current economic situation the PFBC finds themselves in, why waste resources in stocking fish that need raised when nature will do it for you, quite well? The economics may very well be one of the reasons there is some pressure to shift biomass to co-op nurseries.

And some people are just angry about everything it seems :)
 
Add to the fact that a co-op nursery just stocked 10 streams with varying levels of wild brook trout, with hatchery brook trout with gill lice.

Also, see the Saucon creek thread below for a nice quote from Squires about fishing for wild trout in Bethlehem.
 
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