Spring Creek, McCoy Dam Removal

[troutbert]

Some of you may be familiar with McCoy Dam on Spring Creek, between Bellefonte and Milesburg. And maybe some of you fished the plunge pools below the dam.

They started work on Monday. Quite a lot of demolition got done yesterday and more today. The water is drawn down in the flat behind the dam quite a bit already.

By the end of the day tomorrow the dam will probably be mostly removed. If you are in the area, you might stop and take a look.

 

[Acristickid]

How does it look? I am in Pittsburgh so not possible to view myself. Thanks

 

[dryflyguy]

Troutbert:

I'm also in Pittsburgh, and probably won't be back up there until fall. I'm wondering how all that sediment is going to affect the stream below. Maybe you can keep us posted on the conditions in that stretch, which has always been one of my favorites? As I stated in the other post by little juniata - good news - i have mixed feelings about the dam removal. That area at the top of the impoundment behind the kwik-fill has been one of my honey holes. I've had some mornngs in there when I caught over 30 fish on tricos. I've also done very well just below the dam.
I'm sure in the long run, removing the dam will be beneficial though

 

[troutbert]

dryflyguy wrote:
Troutbert:

I'm also in Pittsburgh, and probably won't be back up there until fall. I'm wondering how all that sediment is going to affect the stream below. Maybe you can keep us posted on the conditions in that stretch, which has always been one of my favorites? As I stated in the other post by little juniata - good news - i have mixed feelings about the dam removal. That area at the top of the impoundment behind the kwik-fill has been one of my honey holes. I've had some mornngs in there when I caught over 30 fish on tricos. I've also done very well just below the dam.
I'm sure in the long run, removing the dam will be beneficial though

I don't have a digital camera so can't share photos of it.

Here's the before-removal conditions. As you noted the pools near the bend by the Quik-Fill were really good. Depth and cover.

Again, as you noted, the plunge pools below the dam were really tremendous trout habitat. Depth and cover again. One of the best honey holes on the creek.

The flat behind the dam, paralleling the road, were not real deep, but that was not a mudhole as many people who never walked out there seem to think. Most of that had a firm gravel streambed and with a hatch there were trout rising all over that flat. The trout ran smallish there, but there were lots of them.

So what will happen to these trout habitat areas when the dam is gone? All I can say is just check it out each time you visit. Keep an open mind and open eyes. Don't make any assumptions about whether it will be beneficial or not.

Just look and see and decide for yourself whether the trout habitat is better or worse. Experienced fishermen learn to recognize good habitat.

Next time you visit, check and see. Are the plunge pools still there? Are the big pools near the Quik-Fill still there? Are there still lots of trout in the flat? Have any new pools developed as a result of the removal?

Is anyone familiar with the before and after conditions at the West Penn power plant dam, which was further down on Spring Creek. If so, do you think that removal helped trout habitat or made it worse? Again, don't go by what you think was "supposed" to happen. Go by your own observations as an angler.

How about the removal of the mill dam at Trindle Spring, for those familiar with that little limer. Better or worse?

 

[dryflyguy]

Troutbert:

Actually, I'm just wondering if a bunch of sediment is going downstream into the Milesburg stretch. It seems like you live pretty close to spring creek, and if you happen to go by there, maybe you can keep us posted on what you see. I sure would hate to see that nice section of stream mucked up.

As for the power dam in Milesburg. I started fishing there over 20 years ago and did quite well - below the dam, and in the channel leading into the pool above. There were always somebig fish rising on the far side against those willow trees, but the water was too deep to reach them. Then I happened to be fishing there right when they were busting up the dam. As soon as that big pool was lowered, I was able to reach the fish against those willows on the far bank that I couldn't touch before. And it was some great fishing, for the rest of that year anyway. Caught plenty of nice fish in the 15-16 inch range.
The following year, those big fish didn't seem to be there anymore. Other guys who fish there reported the same thing.
I don't know if they just moved out over the winter or got poached. But things seemed to go downhill quickly
Then hurricane Ivan flooded the stream a few years ago, and filled in the few pools that were there, and now it's basically just one long riffle. And I rarely see anything rising there anymore
So from my experience, the fishing was definitely better around the power dam before they removed it.

 

[Squaretail]

I dont know too much about the McCoy dam, but the removal of the dam at Trindle Spring ABSOLUTELY destroyed it.

 

[troutbert]

dryflyguy wrote:
Troutbert:

Actually, I'm just wondering if a bunch of sediment is going downstream into the Milesburg stretch. It seems like you live pretty close to spring creek, and if you happen to go by there, maybe you can keep us posted on what you see. I sure would hate to see that nice section of stream mucked up.

As for the power dam in Milesburg. I started fishing there over 20 years ago and did quite well - below the dam, and in the channel leading into the pool above. There were always somebig fish rising on the far side against those willow trees, but the water was too deep to reach them. Then I happened to be fishing there right when they were busting up the dam. As soon as that big pool was lowered, I was able to reach the fish against those willows on the far bank that I couldn't touch before. And it was some great fishing, for the rest of that year anyway. Caught plenty of nice fish in the 15-16 inch range.
The following year, those big fish didn't seem to be there anymore. Other guys who fish there reported the same thing.
I don't know if they just moved out over the winter or got poached. But things seemed to go downhill quickly
Then hurricane Ivan flooded the stream a few years ago, and filled in the few pools that were there, and now it's basically just one long riffle. And I rarely see anything rising there anymore
So from my experience, the fishing was definitely better around the power dam before they removed it.

The water was pretty murky going down the creek, as you might expect with the machines working in there. But I'm not real concerned with the sediment. The sediment situation is likely to be real messy, for awhile. But over the long term the fine sediment gets swept away.

I'm more concerned with whether or not there will be good holding water (pools and cover) over the long term, or whether we'll end up with flat, shallow habitat. That's what has the major influence on trout populations.

Regarding the old West Penn Dam at Milesburg. Your observations are similar to mine. That big pool was about 5 feet deep and was thick with trout. The pool was formed and maintained by the dam. They took the dam out. So, no more pool. The streambed substrate rolling along the bottom during floods just graded it in, as expected.

So there's a shallow riffle instead. There are still trout there, but a whole lot less trout than before. Which is what would happen on any stream if you eliminate a high quality pool.That was about 10 years ago. No new pool has formed in that time.

The willow tree you mentioned is still there. But the pool isn't.

The habitat in the pocketwater just upstream from that pool also deteriorated because of the loss of grade control when they pulled the dam made that section much steeper and swifter, which knocked down the high spots and filled in the low spots, reducing the pocket-water habitat.

But back to McCoy Dam. Each situation is different. They said they will build habitat structures this time. They didn't when they removed the West Penn power plant dam, for some unknown reason.

So maybe the habitat structures will work. Sometimes they do, sometimes not.

We'll see. We can all check it out over time and see for ourselves. It'll be interesting to see how things change.

The main point I want to make is that many people are presuming that all dam removals will result in habitat improvement. That is a serious error. It's a lot more complicated than that.

 

[bjkaledas]

Hopefully the sediment has cleared up as I was planning on fishing the Milesburg stretch on Sunday morning.

 

[littlejuniata]

I really enjoyed the reports of the experiences of guys fishing the dam, since the fishery is no longer there and it would not be kiss and tell, it would be great to hear others experiences on that water. A good thing about removal should be cooler water temperatures a bad thing it was probably a good trout nursery?

 

[troutbert]

littlejuniata wrote:
I really enjoyed the reports of the experiences of guys fishing the dam, since the fishery is no longer there and it would not be kiss and tell, it would be great to hear others experiences on that water. A good thing about removal should be cooler water temperatures a bad thing it was probably a good trout nursery?

I'd be interested in any stories of fishing the plunge pools below the dam too, because those are gone now. They are filled in.

I stopped by about an hour ago. The flat above the dam is now drawn way down. Not much habitat there at present.

The big pool at the bend at the gas station still looks pretty good. So far. I expect that the water level will drop quite a bit in that area soon. And the streambed level itself will drop also as the channel cuts up through.

I don't think McCoy Dam really caused any significant warming of water temperatures. The water flowed through there fairly quickly.

 

[bjkaledas]

troutbert,

What does the water look like downstream from the dam removal?

I will probably fish upstream of this dam anyways so it shouldn't be a problem.

BJ

 

[RLeeP]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the overall effect of removal will be positive. While I'd agree (from what I recall) that any warming caused by the dam was not of major significance, if a better flow through gives even a couple degrees of cooler temps to the section of the Bald Eagle immed. downstream, that may help the fishery there as well. And the way access issues have been going lately, any additional high quality limestone wild trout water is a good thing.

The impact on some of the better holding water above the dam site is a concern, IMO. Not because instream habitat work couldn't help cushion any loss of deeper pools, but more because any such work on a stream that size is going to be a major undertaking, as in not cheap.

 

[troutbert]

BJ,
The water downstream is very muddy.

RLEEP. I think the difference in temperature would probably not have been detectable with a typical fishermans thermometer.

There was not really an impoundment there anymore, because the sediment was built up to the level of the dam. So there was no storage of water. It just flowed right across the top of the gravel sediment flat at a similar rate of flow as elsewhere on the creek.

So I think the difference in warming coming across that flat, as compared to warming flowing over a similar length of Spring Creek elsewhere, would have been extremely small. I think much less than one degree.

The real issue, as you stated, is habitat. There were pools there before, but they are likely to be eliminated. Where will the new pools be? You are right, habitat structures on that large of stream will be very expensive.

The Clearwater Conservancy distributed a news release about the project that contains some inaccurate statements that I'd like to clear up.

They refer to it as a "decaying" dam. Not so. It was quite solid. It went through the Floyd flood without a problem. It was not in danger of collapse.

They said it created a "stagnating effect" on the creek. Not so. The water flowed right through the flat as stated above. Do they have any data to back this up?

It says it "negatively effects a world class fishery." As I pointed out, there was excellent habitat there and lots of trout and it isn't clear whether that will still be true when they are finished.

It says that "...removing McCoy-Linn dam will significantly the water quality and riparian habitat..." Really. What water quality parameters will be improved? Temps. No. Dissolved oxygen. No.
They haven't specified any water quality problem caused by the dam.

Near here's the true statement: "...recreational paddling will greatly enhanced by the dam's removal."

Ah, Yup. There you go. That's the story in a nutshell. There's a canoe and kayak shop in Bellefonte that rents boats out for trips. People will now be able to rent a boat, walk down the bank from the shop,and float down Spring Cr and Bald Eagle Cr to the first access point at the upper end of the lake at Bald Eagle State Park.

 

[dryflyguy]

I just returned from a trip to state college, and fished spring creek quite a bit - above the dam site. The water is still quite murky below, even on down into bald eagle creek. And the work crew is still busy digging out sludge from the old lake bed. And from my observation, this will be going on for quite a while.
I wouldn't plan on fishing anywhere below any time soon.

I should also report that the fishing above was excellent with terrestials all afternoon, and I also did pretty well with tricos in the morning, and BWO's amd caddis in evening

 

[tomgamber]

So where is all this in relation to Fisherman's paradise and benner springs...?

 

[Acristickid]

Downstream of rt. 550 below Bellefonte but above Milesburg. This is several miles downstream of Paradise area. I think I am correct in saying miles.

 

[dryflyguy]

The dam site, as acristic noted, is probably at least 4-5 miles below the paradise, on the lower outskirts of Bellefonte.
There is about mile of stream still fishable between Bellefonte and the dam site, starting at the kayak run hole, and running down to just below the sewer treatment plant.
Just below that is the kwik fill gas station,where the stream comes back to, and runs along route 150 for a short stretch, which is where the impoundment was. Now, it's just a narrow stretch of murky water, surrounded by a lot of muck. It can be seen clearly driving along route 150 between Milesburg and Bellefonte

 

[Chaz]

To be fair you have to look at a dam removal from the standpoint of bio-diversity, not as purely a trout stream perspective. When you take into account that removing the dam should improve bio-diversity and if it does then it has improved the habitat. However, it may be that there will be no pools in the reach from Bellefonte to Bald Eagle Creek, and that is a real problem.
As far as kyaking and canoing on creeks the size of Spring Creek I don't think it is appropriate. The Kayakers will want conditions suitable for their sport and that isn't necessarily good for trout and the stream as a whole.

 

[Maurice]

I don't know anything about the reach of stream the dam covered but I wil wager the stream after a few flood events will find bedrock and create riffs, pools and glides that are consistant with nearby reaches of the creek.

The important part of this removal will be the restoration of the floodplain by removing the sediments that were held back. Once they are gone and native plants are installed, recovery will begin.

It'll be a bitchfest at first but in time it will rebuild itself if we let it.

 

[troutbert]

They have not removed the sediments deposited behind the dam, and do not intend to. They created a narrow "floodplain bench" but the rest of the sediment accumulated on top of the original floodplain will be left in place.

The stream has cut down pretty far and probably won't cut much further. It has cut down to a layer of clay. This clay layer is probably not a deposit formed behind the dam, but a geological clay layer. (If anyone with a geology/sedimentology background knows more about such clay deposits, please let me know, I'm interested.)

So the stream grade level is probably down to original, pre-dam elevation, or even below, because they were digging out the streambed with the machines.

There are no bedrock exposures so far, and no boulders. Except for the boulders the contractor placed. The stream is straight, steep, and shallow, running over a clay bed. Gravel is behind carried from upstream and beginning to cover the clay, so before long the bottom will probably be mostly gravel-covered, rather than clay.

I'm not seeing much in the way of pool formation so far. I expect the end result will be mostly riffle / pocket-water.

When you all get up this way to fish Spring Creek or go to football games etc., stop and take a look at the McCoy Dam site. You can take a look at it now, soon after the dam removal and see how it changes over time. It's pretty interesting.