Some thoughts on hook steel

[FrequentTyer]

I think some interesting points have come up in a couple of threads regarding hook choice. It got me thinking, and I wanted to start a new thread to put a few thoughts out there on hook steel and sharpening without it getting mixed in with all the mud slinging. I know a little about hooks, a fair amount about woodworking tools, and a heck of a lot about sharpening wire for making certain types of microelectrodes (I'm a biophysicist and I use them all the time).
So to start with the concept of chemical sharpening. It is really pretty simple and what you would guess. You dip a wire into a chemical solution and it eats away the metal. Depending on the chemicals, metal, starting geometry of the wire, and current running through the wire, you can control the type of point that will develop. Most of the time we will just sharpen the wire by honing a point. This is fast and easy. The only time we resort to chemical sharpening is when the metal is too hard to hone. A good example of this is tungsten which is pretty much impossible to hone. I would suggest that in general the only reason to chemically sharpen steel is that it is too hard to easily hone otherwise. If the metal is soft enough to hone, the only way you will get a sharper point by chemically sharpening is if that point is too fragile to stand up to the forces used in the honing process. This would result in a fragile and rather useless point.
There is an interesting parallel in woodworking tools, in particular chisel and plane blades. The average big box hardware store chisel will be made from a relatively harder steel than what you will find on a more expensive high end chisel or an old flea market chisel. The harder steel is much harder to sharpen and does not hold an edge as well, but it will hold a mediocre edge for a rather long time. Since most weekend warriors don't own a set of sharpening stones let alone know how to use them, they are content that the tool sort of works. Someone that is more of a committed woodworker that understands the care and feeding of his tools will prefer a somewhat softer steel that can be honed to a sharp, albeit short lived edge. I sharpen my chisels and plane irons every time I use them and often several times while using them.
Okay, so what does this have to do with hooks? Well, I'm guessing that the majority of folks just use whatever they are comfortable with and don't give it much thought. But then you have the two extremes. On the one end you have the once or twice a year fisherman, the fly buyer ( and therefore by necessity the professional tyer), the truck chasers or steel headers (sorry, couldn't resist) that just want the hook to look sharp and do the job. They will settle for a hook that sort of works and either not know or care that it could be better. These guys are going to gravitate towards the harder chemically sharpened hooks. On the other extreme you have the fly geeks, the guys that own 16 different types of black thread each with it's own bobbin, and the 100+ day per year trout junkies. They want the hook to be as sharp as possible and would not think of casting without first sharpening and probably sharpen before tying. These guys will likely gravitate towards a softer steel hook that may not look as sharp out of the box but will hone beautifully.
So obviously I am exaggerating and generalizing here to make a point. If whatever hook you use provides an enjoyable tying and fishing experience for you, then you are correct. But I would love to see some comments and thoughts on this topic and hear from folks that know a bit more about types of steel etc. I don't want to argue over hook A vs hook B, but get people to think about why they prefer what they prefer. After all, the hook is the flytyer's canvas, and anyone serious about tying should understand why they choose what they choose.
Mike.

 

[quillfly]

I see how in your application chemical sharping is the latter resort for metal sharpening however i see the same ideas that you address as chemical sharping such as shaping the hook with the sharping as a major advantage for a hook manufacture. Also chemical sharping is probably more efficient for hook manufactures because they can do hooks in batches rather than individual sharping. Thus being more economical, even with the cost to maintain the chemicals for sharpening. Weather this is true or not I don’t know as I have never seen the workings of hook production facility. Example of this is the multiple packs of (insert non premium large online supplier of hooks house brand) that I have at the vice right now. All hooks were chemically sharpened and yet maintain relatively soft metal that hone nicely. Just my thoughts

 

[midnightangler]

In my opinion, sharp hooks are perhaps the most important single factor when fishing for trout with big streamers. When using big streamers with larger hooks, driving the hook point into the mouth of a fish requires more force, and the shape of the hook point can make a big difference as to how much force is actually required. This is why you have things like the Daiichi x-point hooks, which basically have four blades along the sides of the hook point so that it continues to cut as the hook point is penetrating. I've tried to sharpen hooks a bit myself, but its actually quite difficult to make a hook as sharp as the top quality streamer hooks are when new. You can sharpen needle point hooks, but I don't know if an appropriate tool exists to sharpen a hook such as the x-point hooks because the cutting surface is pretty complex. I'd certainly like to hear any hook sharpening suggestions pertaining to this matter, as there is no question that it is a huge factor when streamer fishing.

 

[PACOFRANSICO]

I use a hook file all the time. Just a couple of stokes down from the barb to the point. Do this on each side and knock the lip of the bottom of the point then You ready to rock.

I started using them when Id drive a hook point in to a rock and strip set thinking it was a musky. Of course they are 4,5 and 6 ot tandems which is easier to sharpin that a tiny size 4 or 6.

 

[afishinado]

Where's Pat?? :-?

 

[gutcutter]

my opinion -
it is much more important that a large hook be sharp than a small hook. and a lot of trout hooks fit the category of "no sharpening necessary". the diameter is so thin, that they will easily penetrate a trout's soft mouth. larger hooks have thicker wire and sharpening is much more important. good luck sharpening my size 24 trico flies!
now my size 1/0 - 3/0 tarpon flies are a different story. and this is where my affinity for sharp hooks is most important. i used to spend several minutes stroking each hook with a file to get it exactly how i wanted it. not anymore.
the new hooks with the bladed hookpoints are far better than anything that i can do with a hone.
now hooking a hard mouthed 80 pound tarpon is not comparable to hooking a hatchery rainbow, but equally important to the angler.
personally, i fashion my fly and then fish with the hook straight out of the box, unless it is larger than a size 10. i like chemically sharpened hooks for all other trout flies.
and, i don't ever recall blaming a dull hook point for my failure to hook and land a trout or bass. usually it was a dull hook set!

 

[PACOFRANSICO]

I agree the bladed points are better until you turn 1 down or dull it on a rock. Then you have to take the file to it. Id rather hit em right outta the box and for go the expensive 1's and save myself a $1 a hook.

I think that size of the barbs make difference on the power need to set the hook too ( in the 3/0 and bigger sizes). The mustad 3407 and eagle claw 254 have a monster hook barb. I crush 'em partialy down and I think that helps drive the hook in to a hard mouthed critter.