Scuds - Some Thoughts and Observations

[Fishidiot]

Been playing around with scuds this winter.... Many tiers have traditionally tied their scuds on a curved hook and often with a very dense, packed appearance with a "shell" back and ribbing. There's nothing wrong with these versions - I've used 'em with success for years (as I bet you have too). In recent years, however, I have moved to more slender, elongated patterns to imitate scuds. If you look at scuds in a bowl or tank of water, you will notice that they swim in an elongated fashion. They still have the bent kink near the tail, but it is less obvious than when they are curled up in a ball (as they do when held in your hand, see sketch on left). What is notably obvious when you look at swimming scuds, is the long flowing legs and antennae that stream back with the body and project somewhat on the sides, both above and below the tail, which is itself blended into a point.
Anyway, lacking the photographic skills to capture close up images of these little critters, I tried to sketch 'em instead. The drawings in the middle and on the right reveal these effects: flattened body, streamlined appearance and long, streaming legs that extend further back than the tail when the scud is swimming. When fishing scuds, especially to trout that are visible, I like to give the fly a twitch to imitate the strong swimming abilities of these shrimp.
I think traditional scud patterns, although effective, tend to be too bulky and blunt. I'm also using curved hooks less as I think such flies tend to ride upside down more than those on straight shanks. These days, I try to tie my scuds more sparsely, more elongated, and with much longer hackle for legs in such a way as to get the legs to stream backward.

Scuds are slim, leggy critters when they are swimming.

 

[afishinado]

^ Great post about scuds.

I too use scud hooks to tie nymphs and nymph hooks to tie scuds...lol. For much of the same reason that Dave wrote above; scud hooks (curve shanked hooks) tend to flip over when weighted because weight is not on the centerline with a curved hook.

Straight shank hooks have a tendency to remain true (don't flip over) which is more desirable when trying to imitate a creature that swims, such as a scud.

This is not an issue with creatures that drift rather than swim. An upside hook may be desirable in this case since it has less of a tendency to snag on the bottom riding hook point up.

Good stuff.

 

[poopdeck]

Those sketches are better than a picture. That's talent and your post makes complete sense. So what kind of hook are you using.

 

[pro4mance]

Very nice I'll have to try that one Dave.

 

[turkey]

Great post. I've never liked the scuds I've tied so I overlook them a lot. I really like the look of the ones you tied Dave. Great illustrations as well.

 

[dc410]

Good stuff, Dave. It all makes a lot of sense. Scuds are something that I never really fished a lot. Therefore, I never really gained any confidence in fishing them. Scuds were always on list of things to try to learn more about. I definitely appreciate your insight on these critters and sharing it with us. I guess it is as good of time as any to try to start tying some up and giving them a fair chance because they make up such a large part of the trout's diet in our local limestoners.

 

[whheff]

Great post. I like the sketches too.
I have heard of other tyers using nymph hooks for the exact same reasons you stated.
I have never had much success with scuds but this might be a good time to try something different.
Thanks Dave.

 

[LeTortAngler2]

Informative post and nice flies. After years of tinkering around with scud patterns, the fur(spectrablend) patterns, tied a bit fatter, and picked out (Velcro) to appropriate size, have been go-to. Like a hares ear nymph the buggier the better imo. Sometimes Ill add a strand of orange DMC over the back. With the longer hackle, my only concern is that it will prevent a hookset if the barbules are too stiff.

 

[Fishidiot]

Thanks for the compliments.
Scuds are cool and interesting critters. I think it helps to tie 'em slender, sparse, and leggy for a more realistic impression.
Of course this sparse style hold true for lots of different flies...but it seems to me that it is especially noticeable with scud patterns.

poopdeck wrote:
So what kind of hook are you using.

These are tied on a #16, short shank nymph hook.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

been tying them on straight hooks for years based on the advice of Steve from FFP. Always tied them more slender than what you see in catalogs. The added advantage is that they make a respectable imitation of a caddis larvae when tied in this way

 

[wgmiller]

Orange scuds are "money"!!!

 

[tctrout]

Fun post for sure...and LOVE orange scuds (aren't they supposed to be a secret???).

Fishidiot - I really enjoy your observations regarding scuds in our hands versus in the water; having imitations of both (and applying this to other flies) is part of the reason why my fly boxes are overflowing with patterns.

When it comes to scud patterns (and many others), I really try to flatten the pattern (thanks, Joe Humphreys). I appreciate you mentioning it, because I believe it is overlooked by way too many. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

TC

 

[GenCon]

This really is a great post. Thanks for sharing it with us.

GenCon

 

[djs12354]

Great post! Really enjoy your artwork.

 

[Fishidiot]

On the topic of orange scuds. . . I was curious about this angle. It's long been said that dead scuds are bright orange and many anglers, as can be seen above, have had good success with orange scuds. Out West, in the big tailrace rivers where water levels fluctuate rapidly, dead scuds are a staple fly. However, I don't see bright orange scuds here in the PA spring creeks. Perhaps sunlight plays a role?
Anyway, I got some of these critters and did a photo experiment.

The pic below shows a dead Letort scud and a live one side by side, with the dead one being the larger, upper one. There is indeed a distinct color difference with the dead one showing an orange tint. However, that orange tint is subtle. If you're planning on tying orange scuds, you may wish to tone down the color and lean more toward a lighter grayish/orange color rather than a bright orange.

 

[Night_Stalker]

wgmiller,

so like how much will you give for 2 pounds of live orange scuds...?

 

[LeTortAngler2]

", you may wish to tone down the color and lean more toward a lighter grayish/orange color rather than a bright orange."
I have had some luck with the brighter orange scud patterns in stocked Limestoners, I've collected a few at one time and they turned more of a creamish color with a tint of orange. Could be the reason Hollbrooks pattern and other white scud patterns are so effective.

 

[Fishidiot]

LeTortAngler2 wrote:
Could be the reason Hollbrooks pattern and other white scud patterns are so effective.

Makes sense.

I think it fairly unlikely that central PA limestone trout are especially likely to be keyed on dead scuds. Perhaps this may occur after a molt die off anomaly or something atypical. I dunno. I just don't see a lot of dead scuds in the limestoners I fish.

 

[DGC]

A smallish orange scud if it is not absurdly gaudy orange and particularly if tied on a scud hook shape is likely taken as an egg in waters where dead scuds are not that common. Or just as an attractor. I had the lucky experience of reading Roger Hill's little book about the South Platte years ago where this concept came up. I'm sure many others have had similar ideas before and since.

 

[Chaz]

Great post Fish. They are after all shrimp, if not in name at least by family tree. I a rest position they are most often curled up, when swimming is various other positions, especially stretched out. Great drawing too.